Drawing to inside straight, were my odds good enough?

.50/1.00 limit hold'em, 10 handed, hero is in middle position with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop:
3 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold,<font color="red">Hero calls</font>, CO calls, button calls, SB calls, BB raises, MP1 calls, <font color="red">Hero calls</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls

Flop: (12 smalls bets) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, <font color="red">Hero calls</font>,CO folds, Button calls, SB calls

Turn: (8.5 big bets) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, <font color="red">Hero calls </font>, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (13.5 big bets) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero folds, Button folds, SB calls

Final Pot: 16.5 BB

At the time this call seemed like a no brainer. On the flop there was 14 smalls bets in the pot and it would only cost me one more to call. With 10.75:1 to hit on the turn, it seemed like an easy call, especially when you factor in that I have two overcards. In retrospect though I think I may have overestimated my outs. In a five way pot like this one with a two flush on the board, I'd estimate that the flush draw is out there at least half the time, so there's a very good chance that the 10 of hearts could be dead to me. This means that I have 3.5 outs instead of 4. Also I would say about half the time, there's another Jack out there, so I'm drawing to a split pot a good percentage of the time. So instead of having 4 outs to a 14 SB pot, I have 3.5 to a 7 SB pot. The overcard outs aren't great either, as the Jack puts a four straight on the board, and someone may already have a smaller pair with a King kicker, in which case I would be reverse dominated. Also with the whole two flush on board, I figure my overcards may be worth only about 2 outs. So now I have 5.5 outs in a 7 SB pot, meaning I'm about 8.5 to 1 to hit on the turn. With implied odds and the likelyhood of overcallers behind me padding the pot, I guess I can make the call on the flop.

The turn is a similar deal, although I'm getting slightly worse odds.

I don't know what I'm saying anymore, so i'm going to stop rambling, and let someone else look at this. Am I overthinking an easy call, or are my concerns legit?

[lufbradolly]

With the BB betting all the way there's a good chance he has an overpair so lets count your overs as 2 outs and your inside straight draw as 3 outs. I think the turn call is fine.

[irishpint]

on the flop yes. on the turn no, because some of your outs make the fluuuuuuuuuush

[irishpint]

i count 1 K and 2 T that id like to see. a jack likely makes a straight for someone else and if we hit our pair or straight and it's also the third flush card we can't be too excited about it.

[eviljeff]

you need to discount your "4" outs for the following reasons:
1) you're not drawing to the nuts
2) the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] makes a flush possibility
3) you could easily be drawing to a split pot

taking these into account, I think you need to let go on the turn.

edit: woops, ignored your overcard outs. still, I think a turn fold is in order.

[aK13]

Raise prefrop.

[Chubbers]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise prefrop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding right?

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise prefrop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I'm not.

EDIT: After 1 MP limper, I'm raising because:
1. Value
2. Try to fold the blinds to get this HU
3. If not that, buy the button

KJ is a good hand with 1-2 players, but gets owned multiway. I want to limit the field as much as possible, not play this 5 way.

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
No. I'm not.

EDIT: After 1 MP limper, I'm raising because:
1. Value
2. Try to fold the blinds to get this HU
3. If not that, buy the button

KJ is a good hand with 1-2 players, but gets owned multiway. I want to limit the field as much as possible, not play this 5 way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just out of curiosity, would you try this at a nano game (.25/.50 and smaller) where you're just likely to get 3 or 4 cold callers anyway? I see a lot of these in my threads and it seems rather counterproductive at this level.