15/30 Hand at Hollywood Park

stackm · #1 07-20-2005, 06:43 PM

I'm in the small blind. It's folded around to the cutoff, who raises. I don't have a great read on this player, but I've been in a couple hands with him, and he seems like a loose-aggressive player who knows what he's doing. He tried to put a play on me on an earlier hand, but I called him down with top pair weak kicker and he showed high card.

In any case, the button folds and I look down at 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and make it three bets. The big blind folds, cutoff calls, and we go to the flop with $90 in the pot.

The flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet out, cutoff raises, I three bet. He calls.

Turn comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], completing the rainbow. I bet, he raises, I fold. Any commentary on my line?

mike l. · #2 07-20-2005, 09:55 PM

donk check the turn and take it to showdown is the best way to play it against a player capable of making a move.

another hp 15-30 poster eh? uh oh...

rmarotti · #3 07-21-2005, 12:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
we go to the flop with $90 in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think this way?

Fillamoore · #4 07-21-2005, 02:35 AM

Actually, there shouldve been $105 in the pot...but hey, who's counting.
Anyways, by the time you folded you were being offered pot odds (with implied odds) of about 11 to 1. Obviously not good enough so a fold was correct if you thought you were beat. I personally like checking the turn and just calling him down. If you got him beat, he'll bluff his money to you, if not, you're only losing two more big bets. Not bad considering you lost 1 and dont evne know if he was good or not. It looks like a variation to the play where you smooth call the flop with position then raise the turn when theres a pair on board...as to represent it. Since it could very easily be that check/call i think is the best approach.

ike · #5 07-21-2005, 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
we go to the flop with $90 in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really think this way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he counted wrong, but are you saying he shouldn't be thinking about the size of the pot?

mike l. · #6 07-21-2005, 04:36 AM

"Well he counted wrong, but are you saying he shouldn't be thinking about the size of the pot?"

no. what he was saying is that one shouldnt be thinking about the pot in terms of being an amount of dollars. it should always be an amount of small bets or big bets.

stackm · #7 07-21-2005, 03:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Well he counted wrong, but are you saying he shouldn't be thinking about the size of the pot?"

no. what he was saying is that one shouldnt be thinking about the pot in terms of being an amount of dollars. it should always be an amount of small bets or big bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, as you noted, I counted wrong - but that aside, what difference does it make? It really doesn't matter if I think of it as $30 to win $180 or 1 big bet to win 6 big bets - either way I know I'm getting 6 to 1.

mike l. · #8 07-21-2005, 04:21 PM

"It really doesn't matter if I think of it as $30 to win $180 or 1 big bet to win 6 big bets"

a couple things:

1. most players shift between limits (10-20, 15-30, 20-40, 25-50, 30-60, 40-80, etc) so it gets confusing to think of it in terms of dollars when you switch around. not just for hero but for readers too.

2. one could argue that psychologically it's important to detach oneself from the idea that your playing with money or dollars. theyre just chips and bets. ideally one would make the right decision whether it's $120 in the pot and theyre playing 15-30 or it's $1200 in the pot and we're playing 150-300. i think that's what the initial respondent was getting at.

stackm · #9 07-21-2005, 07:02 PM

Point taken. I understand that using the dollar figure may not be the best way to go about things - especially if I'm posting a hand here. I just thought the "Is this really the way you think?" comment was a little bit harsh, lol. It's not like it's an irrational or stupid method; it may not be the most concise, but it's perfectly correct (except for the fact that I miscounted, lol).

golferbrent · #10 07-23-2005, 03:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the small blind. It's folded around to the cutoff, who raises. I don't have a great read on this player, but I've been in a couple hands with him, and he seems like a loose-aggressive player who knows what he's doing. He tried to put a play on me on an earlier hand, but I called him down with top pair weak kicker and he showed high card.

In any case, the button folds and I look down at 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and make it three bets. The big blind folds, cutoff calls, and we go to the flop with $90 in the pot.

The flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet out, cutoff raises, I three bet. He calls.

Turn comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], completing the rainbow. I bet, he raises, I fold. Any commentary on my line?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think the fold is a terrible fold... but since the player is new to you and you have a modest hand with some showdown value right now... I would like to get to showdown as cheaply as possible and learn a little more about my opponent. Just my thought... a little investment to learn a lot. However, when you lead the turn and he raises you have to make a decision about what you want to do... fold or call down...

I think you may have made the right decision for the line you chose... However, if you picked a different line then maybe you could of gotten to showdown?? Just my thoughts on the subject! I think you played the hand fine for the chosen line. I love the 3-bet preflop...