Is 300BB really enough?

[Kyriefurro]

Any time someone asks "How much money should I have to play at limit X?" the automatic response is 300BB. Yet anyone who's spent even a little time in the forums soon notices that the majority of serious posters keep a significantly larger bankroll. Sfer's post confirms this - over half of the repondents have >500BB. Some have over 1000BB!!

So I'm curious...why do we continue to use 300BB as the magic number? Is it really valid? and if so, why are so many of us uncomfortable playing with that size of a bankroll?

I realize that 300BB is considered to be "bare minimum," so what would be the "ideal" bankroll size?

I've been thinking about this question a lot the last few days as I'm making plans to move up to 3/6, and I have my own thoughts about this, but I'd really like to hear from some of the more experienced players out there.

Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[toss]

300 BB should be enough, but most of us are risk averse/ uncomfortable playing with 150 BB if we hit a 150 BB downswing.

[krimson]

The thinking behind a 300bb bankroll is that you are prepared to drop down a limit if a downswing puts you into an uncomfortable position (bankroll wise). Most of us don't want to move down a limit.

Plus, bankroll typically grows faster than skill. I have a bankroll for 15/30 games, and play 2/4.

[Paxosmotic]

300BB is enough for up to 4 tables. I like a little more for 8 tables (400BB), only because I don't like having 2/3rds of my roll on the tables at one time. That said, the reason a lot of us have extra is because we simply don't cash out. My Party account is essentially a bank account for me, so I just earn and earn and it sits there until I feel like buying a new toy. So I guess a more accurate description of my bankroll is "400bb plus whatever I've built up since the last toy I bought."

I don't think any consistent winners at 2/4 and up honestly feel they need 500BB+ to cover downswings. It's just winnings.

Edit : Krimson's point about bankroll > skill is also very true, and more accurate.

[ceskylev]

This is something I've been thinking about as well. 300 BB is probably enough...if you're a robot. We all have a low water mark that if we cross it, we aren't comfortable playing anymore. For me, it's 150BB. For better players, it might be lower. At any rate, once you're playing scared, it's time to drop down, which completely sucks.

Better to decide what your threshold is, and add that number to the standard 300BB to come up with your newer, better BR size. Whereas your risk of ruin was once 5%, that 5% would now be your risk of having to move down a limit.

Turning pro is not something that appeals to me, but I'd never do it with fewer than 500BB, if only to avoid having to stress over every 100+BB downswing.

[flair1239]

There are formulas you can use to calculate required BR to minimise your risk of ruin.

The lower your win-rate the more you need (your downswings are bigger and more frequent with a lower WR). The higher your standard deviation the more you need.

A good rule is the higher you go the more BB you need. For myself, I would feel comfortable starting to play 1/2 with $400 (200BB). But I would not feel comfortable playing 10/20 with $6,000 (300BB).

Here is a link to a BR formula post

Bankroll link

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
300 BB should be enough, but most of us are risk averse/ uncomfortable playing with 150 BB if we hit a 150 BB downswing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus for many micro and SS people, bonus whoring builds up your bankroll faster than your skill level, so by the time you've put in 10k or more hands at your old limit you have waaaaay more than 300BB for the next level.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
A good rule is the higher you go the more BB you need. For myself, I would feel comfortable starting to play 1/2 with $400 (200BB). But I would not feel comfortable playing 10/20 with $6,000 (300BB).


[/ QUOTE ]
This is also a good thing to consider, what you're comfortable with. A few of us in this thread are proven winners up through 3/6, and two of us are bankrolled for 15/30. However, I am a losing player at 15/30, so if I was to make the jump, I'd need enough to not only cover downswings, but cover learning how to play. I would play scared with 300bb (and also deserve to lose every dime for jumping from 3/6 to 15/30).

[Crveballin]

I know for a fact I am risk adverse. That speaking I took my time through the micro's to make sure I had what it takes to cut it at $2/$4 and above. I have 400BB for $3/$6 yet I have only played 3500 hands at $2/$4. During those hands I have had a 80BB downswing but still running well with over 300BB(at 2/4).

Do I think I can win at $3/$6? Yes I do, but I want to make sure that I have enough hands under my belt at $2/$4 to make sure that I am not just running well.

[Kyriefurro]

Since I made my "last" $300 buy-in on May 8, I have had a firm rule that when bankroll=300BB @ Limit X I would move to that limit, regardless of whether I was moving up or down. The result has been I've bounced around between 1/2 and 2/4 like a yo-yo. I've also made a couple of observations:

#1) If I step down regularly, 300BB @ 2/4 would really give me 600BB before I completely bust out (150 @ 2/4 + 150 @ 1/2 + 300 @ .50/1).

#2) You have to win 300BB to move up to 2/4 from 1/2, but only 150BB lost before you have to step back down.

#3) It takes a lot longer to move up than it takes to move down [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img].

The move from 2/4 to 3/6 is even more unusual in that the limits only increase 50% instead of doubling. So if I stuck to my system, I'd only have a 100BB cushion before I have to drop back down to 2/4.

So in my case I don't think that 300BB is enough, especially as it relates to my goals of moving up to higher limits. I think that I want to have at least 500BB for 3/6 before I move up. This would give me a full 300BB cushion before I had to step back down to 2/4, which would help me be a lot more relaxed in my playing. In addition, since I'm much less likely to loose 300BB than 100BB, I could stop doing my yo-yo impersonation [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

This would also have the added benefit of making me play even more hands at 2/4, which *should* ensure that my skills are solid enough to make the move to 3/6.