Some doubtfull pocket deuces

Peter_rus · #1 07-20-2005, 06:41 AM

Very aggressive 30/60 SH game with PFR of 20 and VPIP of 39 for 5 players in average.

My image in all situations isn't ok, as is image of my opponents. In such game it's common situation 'when no one ever believes'. Im trying to avoid preflop tighties and extract maximum from ones who go postflop too far.

1 hand. UTG seems decent PF (PFR 20), Button played with call/cold call all 8 hands he was on a table.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, Button calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, Button bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

2 hand. Button seems laggish preflop, BB is decent PF player but he overplays his hands postflop putting up too much aggression. he's unlucky today and probably start to overplay his hands postflop even more. I figured im behind on flop quite often but there is still some chance he has 2 big cards he don't plan to fold and maybe also on a flush draw. On turn i planned to fold to a raise, on river i plan to check-fold as all his cards i read now better than mine.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (6 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (12 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Hand 3 Opponent just sat down and i havent seen him at this level before so i guess he would probably to call down more than other opponents to figure out aggression level. After his PF-cap i put him on AK, AA-TT quite less likely AQ, AJs. On river all these hands are also possible.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (9.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

stripsqueez · #2 07-20-2005, 09:26 AM

i think number 1 is ok - i dont play this hand post flop a lot unless i see a 2 so i always think the other times are marginal

hand 2 i like - on the river he never bets KJ or that flush draw ?

the third one should be titled "should i raise the turn ?" - i wouldnt

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

ISF · #3 07-20-2005, 11:15 AM

Hand 1: I would play it the same.
Hand 2: I think a check fold may be correct on this river, but is so likely he has a flush draw I think I would end up calling not sure what is best here though.
Hand 3: I usually donk bet the turn instead of check raising it, but play it the same otherwise.

Nietzsche · #4 07-20-2005, 11:21 AM

In hand 1 is it really +EV for you to call preflop in the SB?

Alobar · #5 07-20-2005, 12:50 PM

whats the reason behind check/call in hand 1? I think you get A high calls more often than A high bets, and if someone has a better hand I dont see them being scared to bet it, so you dont get the free showdown.

Hand 2: I prolly end up calling a river bet just cuz the pot is so huge, and it isnt entirely impossible he had a draw or maybe KJ, and decided to bet that A

hand 3: I prolly just call down, If you dont think hes folding, I dont think there is enough value in raising. So I'd either just check/calldown, or maybe lead the river.

Surfbullet · #6 07-20-2005, 06:42 PM

In hands 1 and 2 the turn gets Stop-N-Go'd...is this a protection against the free card play? Or a value-bet because flop raises generally mean little? It is not a line I often employ, and I'd like to understand when/why it is best utilized.

Hand1:
I'd value-bet the river. Once I check, and LP button bets into the 2 of us I'm folding, the risk of UTG overcalling behind + the fact that all I beat is a bluff makes me lean towards folding.

Hand2:
I like the bet-fold on the turn...no free card for the flush draw/AK, and an overpair/set will almost certainly raise again. This is player dependent-there are many players who don't take free cards with a flush draw, and against them check-calling is much better because they may even raise a worse hand.

I intellectually agree with check-folding the river but may call because of pot size.

Hand3:
Given your read of AK, AA-TT, maybe AQ/AJs I think the turn raise is poor...we are hoping he has specifically AK(and the rare AQ/AJs), and didn't take a free card with it hoping to induce a bluff.

After he just calls it seems we've gotten lucky and he does have AK, good value-bet on the river(again fold to a raise I assume, in case of AQ?)

Surf

bugstud · #7 07-20-2005, 07:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 1 is it really +EV for you to call preflop in the SB?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been doing it, though maybe not down to 22...you simply play too much better than a lot of these guys playing 30 short to give up these chances. Sets are exteremly profitable against these guys as well.

Peter_rus · #8 07-21-2005, 07:29 AM

Hand 1. Button shows QhJs and MHIG.
Hand 2. BB shows JsJd and i lost.
Hand 3. Button shows AcKs and MHIG.

Thank you for answers.

I'm amazed how many of you like the lines as i find them very laggy-unreasonable. I also find out that after playing a decent amount 15/30 - 30/60 full games i start to be too passive postflop, too often calling down/folding early such marginal hands as above.

Im actually look through my 5/10 - 10/20 6max hands and feel like i was insane having WTSD close to 39 and W$SD of 49 with more than 3bb/100. Some plays i never use now due to overcrediting my opponents and some postflop weakness which is due to my full games experience.

I plan to switch from mid-high to SH this time at least for period i play fair amount of SH-games.

cartman · #9 07-21-2005, 07:33 PM

Hi Peter. These plays also strike me as -EV. Do you think they are actually reasonable and your perspective has just changed? Or do you think that they are too aggressive and you just didn't realize it at the time?

I have read lots of your archived posts and I hope that you will post in HUSH more often.

Thanks,
Cartman

Peter_rus · #10 07-22-2005, 03:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think they are actually reasonable and your perspective has just changed?

[/ QUOTE ]

After a couple of posters, who routinely play SH including Strip said they like the most part of play i'm also try to find reasons to like them also and re-consider some of my weak plays.