KK....will you or won't you?

xGoreDudex · #1 07-19-2005, 01:56 PM

I played this hand today. And from what I know I played it therorectcally correct. I mean KK pre-flop is a awsome premium holding. However, when the pot is capped and you have 3+ callers, this offers a great payout for when your KK's hold up.

This is a situation I cam across today....

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, MP1 caps, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button raises, BB folds, MP1 calls, Hero folds.

Turn: (10.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Button raises, MP1 calls.

River: (14.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Button bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

If I would have stayed in this pot I would have won, one player had Queens and the other had J9o (I attribute player b's holding to the limit's we are playing), However I feel my fold is correct..the only error I see looking back is not 3 betting the flop. With that said, I believe with the pre-flop caps and the flush draw on the board (yes I hold the Ks but there are definatley better situations to be in).

1) I thought I was drawing against either, JJ or AJs (spades)
2) based on this "read" I feel a fold was warrented.

3) I hope you bereate this play, as I really am struggling sometimes with premium holdings in marginal situations, granted if I had lost this pot I'd be patting myself on the back, however I would have won had I stayed in, but that's neither here or there.

Who else folds this? or am I just wayyy gone on this one.

tiltaholic · #2 07-19-2005, 02:02 PM

you simply cannot play the flop the way you did.
you folded closing the action getting like 21:1 (if i counted correctly). at the very least you should have called to hit your K.

you need to raise the flop.

do not fold the flop for one bet closing the action getting 21:1.

adsman · #3 07-19-2005, 02:03 PM

Wow, I can't really believe that you folded this. What sort of flop do you like with KK? Cause it doesn't get much better than this. You even have the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Bodhi · #4 07-19-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
However I feel my fold is correct..

[/ QUOTE ]

AmarilloJim1 · #5 07-19-2005, 02:04 PM

Raise the flop, don't fold.

xGoreDudex · #6 07-19-2005, 02:05 PM

Well, again probably bit gun shy loosing a few BB's with some preium cards my last couple of sessions, My thinking was that with the amount of players capping, JJ wasn't out of the question here, the flush draw came on the board, as well as a straight draw by the turn i believe, either way with the pot multi-way and people firing chips, I believe I wasn't as strong as I thought, I layed it down, I definatley agree I should have fired this flop, but will never know.

Thanks for responses.

Lavarn · #7 07-19-2005, 02:06 PM

Hero folds on the flop??

With KK building a big pot preflop, I don't think you can fold on the flop regardless of what comes. Especially when it is only one bet back to you, I think your backdoor flush draw alone justifies calling one additional bet, even if you could somehow see that the raiser had T9 for a straight.

The first call on the flop is probably ok since you are planning to raise the turn to protect your hand. When the button raises behind you it sucks, but you really can't put him on anything better than top pair at this point. Reraising the flop isn't a bad play, or betting out on the turn when the harmless 2 hits. Just don't fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

albedoa · #8 07-19-2005, 02:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking was that with the amount of players capping, JJ wasn't out of the question here

[/ QUOTE ]

Count again. How many were capping?

Vote4Pedro · #9 07-19-2005, 02:07 PM

No offense, but this is easily makes my Top 5 Weakest Folds of All Time. Make it 3 on the flop, and go from there. You have an overpair and a backdoor flush draw in a huge pot, folding is soooo bad

xGoreDudex · #10 07-19-2005, 02:08 PM

3 players capping pre-flop,including me
4 to the flop...thinking reasonably, I can't see why JJ isn't a strong possibility.