Deliberate Tells

twizzilator · #1 02-21-2003, 02:31 PM

Playing in loose games I find that there are situations in which I *want* my opponents to know exactly what I have so that they will fold. (Of course I may be being a bit optimistic with some of them thinking that they would fold if they knew the odds were against them.) Thus I find myself trying to put out as blatant tells as possible to get the chasers to fold; sometimes I even feel like turning my cards face up (I am not sure if that is legal or not though)! So are there, in fact, theoretical situations in which it would be better if your opponents knew exactly what you had so they would know that it was time to fold and you would actually benefit from this?

sucka · #2 02-21-2003, 02:42 PM

What kind of a situation are you referring to ?

Let's say you have a strong - but vulnerable hand. You flop top set and turn comes 3 flush cards and you turn over your pocket pair for your opponent to see as you bet.

Your opponent now has an extreme advantage over you. He knows you don't have a flush - and now he can represent one or decide just how far ahead or behind he is and decide whether or not its worth it to stay to see the river.

Think about it - you show your set on the turn and your opponent(s) raise you. You have no idea what that means now. Do they really have a flush and are hoping that you'll call now knowing that they have you beat? Are they showing aggression now in a pot where they normally wouldn't in attempt to steal it from you by representing a bigger hand than your set? You see what I mean here?

IMO, unless you turn over the aboslute nuts - and you ARE nuts if you do that when people will call with lessor hands - I think you just cut off your nose to spite your face.

SoBeDude · #3 02-21-2003, 04:56 PM

I really think you missed the point of his post.

He's not talking about turning over his cards, he's talking about trying to manufacturer a "tell" which will let his opponents know he has a big or "made" hand...thus encouraging them to fold so they won't suck out on him with their 2-3 outer.

-Scott

bernie · #4 02-21-2003, 06:09 PM

why would you want them to fold if they knew the odds were against them? you want them to call in this spot...

taken a few bad beats have ya?

b

bernie · #5 02-21-2003, 06:13 PM

"thus encouraging them to fold so they won't suck out on him with their 2-3 outer."

you want them to call the bet with a 2 or 3 outer...not fold. unless the 'do' have the pot odds to call a bet, THEN you want them to fold...

this is where the money is made guys. on guys overcalling their hands...and yes, they will hit the cards they need at times.

by wanting a guy to fold his 2 outer, youre not understanding the game and why you want them to call....

b

Big Al · #6 02-21-2003, 06:44 PM

Exactly Bernie. Not sure what these guys are thinking. I agree, you want a guy to draw and put money in the pot on a 2-3 outer when you are the heavy favorite. That said, I will give a false tell when playing with people I perceive as a fish. Its usually involves when there are 4 suited cards on the board and I already have the nut flush or have the Ace of the suited hand. If I am early to act, I will look at my cards when the fourth suited card hits (usually on the river) and check. This can sometimes lure a fish into making a bet and others behind him possibly calling. Then you re-pop. I basically do this if I think the person will fold if I lead. I dont do it very often, just in certain situations with certain players.

cferejohn · #7 02-21-2003, 06:53 PM

Wouldn't it make some sort of sense in a situation where there are 2 players drawing against you? Especially if they were drawing to different things (say one to a straight, the other to a flush, either of which would be good). Can't their be a situation where their combined outs makes your odds bad, but their individual odds are bad as well?

Tommy Angelo · #8 02-21-2003, 08:59 PM

Call me old fashioned, but what I've found is that the guys I have the most trouble with are the ones I can't read, and the reason I can't read 'em is because they give me nothing. It is these people's mission, my teachers, to give up no usable information, during, and more importantly after, a hand. I've known, like, three white guys out of thousands who could do it. And they terrified me at the table. So, I try to be just like that.

Tommy

bernie · #9 02-21-2003, 11:23 PM

exaggerating your example....

wouldnt you then turn over your pkt Aces preflop?

b

hot tub man # 1 · #10 02-22-2003, 08:34 PM

I couldnt agree more. Showing an oppenent your hand when you are not required to is one of the worst and most commonly made mistake in poker IMO. I used to fall into this trap after someone put a bad on me, and I would flash my cards, letting the whole table know what a big favorite I was.

Eventually I began to realize two things. First, nobody, and I do mean nobody, cares when I get bad beat. They may pretend to, but they dont. Secondly, the better players at the table will use this information agaist me every chance they get down the road. Information is power at the poker table, and to give it away is foolish.