Another murky ethics question

Vehn · #1 02-20-2003, 03:55 PM

At the end of a heads up hand the board is 5 hearts. The blind checks and the button checks. The blind tables his Xx2h and the button flashes both his cards but doesn't table his middle pair with no heart, and mucks. The dealer awards the pot to the blind. I'm about to speak up and decide not to. 5 seconds later 2 players say both players were playing the board, and the dealer takes the pot back from the blind and chops it, no floor is involved. Did I/the dealer do the right thing?

Wingnut · #2 02-20-2003, 04:29 PM

IMHO, this is a clear case of "protect your cards". Dealer erred in at least not calling for the floor.

pudley4 · #3 02-20-2003, 04:46 PM

If it's at CP, here is the official rule:

Playing the Board: A player may play the board by throwing his hand away only if: (1) the hand has been checked around, or (2) there has been a bet and a call, and the best hand is on the board. The player must CLEARLY declare that he is playing the board before throwing his hand away; otherwise the player relinquishes all claims to the pot.

The blind should get the entire pot.

Interesting side question - if you were the blind, would you have bet on the river to try to avoid the chop?

Vehn · #4 02-20-2003, 05:12 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Playing the Board: A player may play the board by throwing his hand away only if: (1) the hand has been checked around, or (2) there has been a bet and a call, and the best hand is on the board. The player must CLEARLY declare that he is playing the board before throwing his hand away; otherwise the player relinquishes all claims to the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hand was checked around though on the river.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Interesting side question - if you were the blind, would you have bet on the river to try to avoid the chop?

[/ QUOTE ]

The hand was played so ridiculously badly by both people it never should have went to a showdown, it was something like button open limps with T9o, BB checks, BB flops middle pair and bets, button flopped top pair and calls, turn is the 4th heart and checked through and river is checked through. But I almost always bet and occasionally raise when I'm playing the board in an attempt to get someone else who's also playing the board to fold.

pudley4 · #5 02-20-2003, 09:54 PM

But since the button didn't declare he was playing the board, he forfeits his right to the pot. Seems like it should have been simple for the dealer to figure out.

Casey · #6 02-21-2003, 02:44 PM

If the blind flashed and then mucked his cards, are they still live. I don't think so. The blind should never have been awarded the whole pot. The rule that you must clearly say you are palying the board has not been consistently enforced at the low limit tables at Canturbury.

If neither player objected to the pot being chopped, I don't think the dealer should call the floor over. Chopping is probably the best call in this situation.

And no, I don't think you should have said anything about the blind mucking. One player to a hand. It should be up to the other player to figure this out.

I lost half a pot the other day because someone told a mucking player to flip his cards over and play the board.

Casey · #7 02-21-2003, 02:46 PM

Sorry, the button flashed and mucked. The blind should have gotton the whole pot.

MarkD · #8 02-21-2003, 06:04 PM

The hand was made visible. Everywhere I've played that hand is now shown and the rule is, "best hand shown wins". I've seen many dealers miss the best hand and award the pot to the wrong person and I've corrected them. This is a similar case.

MarkD · #9 02-21-2003, 06:50 PM

If the hand was turned face up on the table I would have said something but the outlined situation is different.

Tommy Angelo · #10 02-21-2003, 09:28 PM

"If neither player objected to the pot being chopped, I don't think the dealer should call the floor over. Chopping is probably the best call in this situation."

My thoughts exactly. The first rule to settling a dispute is: at least make sure there is one.

What gets me is seat changes. A player who thinks he is entitled to a seat but thinks he's about to get screwed, will so so often make a big fuss, ready to go to war over it, when the guy who really is entitled to the seat doesn't even want it. Lots of times I ask the entitled guy if he wants the seat, and he says no, and I tell the upset guy, go ahead, it's your seat, and he's like, wait, that was too easy, I'm not done fighting yet.

Tommy