Trying to get too tricky?

[AASooted]

I think I may be coming down with Fancy Play Syndrome. Am I trying to get too tricky in these hands?

I'm still working on getting good reads. I'd been at this table for a little while and hadn't seen much out of the ordinary.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero ???

Do I bet here? Check-raise? If the board wasn't so coordinated, I'd assume CO will be betting and plan to trap the field for two bets. Should that still be my plan with three to a straight?



Villain in this hand has proved himself to be an even bigger doofus than I am. Over the course of the session he's bet and called with no pair and one overcard, re-raised with 73o pre-flop, and raised a flop with bottom pair and a bad kicker.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

It's hard to take this 3-bet too seriously since I've seen him do it with 73o.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Given what I've seen of him, I'm 90% sure he's going to bet here no matter what he has, but I was waiting to raise him until a more expensive street. About all I give him credit for right now is two cards in front of him.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls.

I figured the check-raise was a sure thing, and as far as I can tell with this guy, 3-betting might mean he has top pair.

Looking at it now, I think I should be playing this fast on the flop and hoping he comes along instead of calling and check-raising the turn. Should I be showing that 3-bet any respect?

Edit to reflect that fact that I capped, not villain.

[Dieter01]

Hand 1:
Hmm... That flop is very coordinated, but its tempting to trap some people in despite that fact. I would go for a c/r.

Hand 2:
Cap PF. Bet the flop and call a raise. Bet out and continue raising on the next streets. Bring it home!

[irishpint]

hand 1: id bet here and HOPE co raises and faces them with 2 cold. you are in a dangerous spot with 3/ to the straight and i would HATE to give them all a free card. the pot is large enough to call on a gutshot, but i want that extra $ when they dont hit, and CO may raise which would screw them over. c/r builds a pot which is NOT what we want here.

hand 2: i'd raise the flop here and call a 3 bet...but then lead the turn, hoping to get raised. we dont want to knock him out but with 2 different flushes possible now i hate giving him a free/cheap card. we are ahead here nearly 100% of the time, IMO. BTW, heads up id cap with TT, especially against this guy.

[silkyslim]

1) c/r looks good. hope to god CO doesnt check.

2) I'm bad at pf, so I don't know about capping. I'd bet out this flop, he will raise, i call and c/r turn.

[Arcturus]

Hand #1: Bet the flop!
Hand #2: Bet the flop!

[Greg J]

Hand one: the flop is coordinated sure, but that is more likely to mean live draws than a make hand. Even if someone does have a straight you have a hell of a redraw. Yr lack of reads on CO leave me ambivilant. Is he a TAG that is capable of checking through a hand like AQ? Or will he automatically bet? The ideal thing to do is checkraise, but when in doubt, I bet, since you are likely to get cold calls on this board in CO raises the flop, allowing you to 3 bet.

Hand 2: I don't mind the action so far. HU I am more prone to not worry about the 2 flush with a set since a) it is more unlikely and b) you have redraws to beat it. I think me might be overplaying AA or KK, but don't rule out a set of Jacks. I might checkraise the river and call down a reraise.

[irishpint]

[ QUOTE ]
1) c/r looks good. hope to god CO doesnt check.



[/ QUOTE ]

i think a c/r here is terrible. first off, CO could check it through giving them a free card that could beat us. secondly, by check raising we're making a large pot- no one is going to fold for 1 more bet. on a safe board this is fine, since they are drawing slim. but here everyone is probably drawing live and c/r makes the pot large enough for a gutshot to stay in on the turn- not what we want.

i suggest you rethink your c/r.

[gonzopro]

Hand 1: I bet the flop hoping CO raises forcing out the gutshots who will now face 2 cold. A ck raise only builds the pot allowing everyone to call the turn.

Hand 2efinitely cap preflop against someone who plays 73o. Most of the time I think I bet this flop primarily because of the flush draw.

[AASooted]

Hand 1:

[ QUOTE ]
i think a c/r here is terrible. first off, CO could check it through giving them a free card that could beat us. secondly, by check raising we're making a large pot- no one is going to fold for 1 more bet. on a safe board this is fine, since they are drawing slim. but here everyone is probably drawing live and c/r makes the pot large enough for a gutshot to stay in on the turn- not what we want.

i suggest you rethink your c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the time, I convinced myself the check-raise was okay since I had 7 outs to a full house or better and would have 10 on the turn if I missed. The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about not wanting to build a big pot with so many players who could be drawing on me.

I just downloaded Pokerstove, so there's a chance I'm not running it right, but it looks like I have quite a bit of equity here, even if there's a made straight already. Now I'm more confused than I was before.

Board: 6h 8d 7s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 60.0700 % 60.07% 00.00% { 8h8s }
Hand 2: 00.0000 % 00.00% 00.00% { random }
Hand 3: 20.6028 % 18.67% 01.93% { Jd9h }
Hand 4: 08.5137 % 07.19% 01.33% { AcTs }
Hand 5: 05.1764 % 03.32% 01.86% { random }
Hand 6: 05.6371 % 03.89% 01.74% { random }

Board: 6h 8d 7s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 35.1826 % 35.11% 00.08% { 8h8s }
Hand 2: 00.0850 % 00.00% 00.08% { random }
Hand 3: 55.7103 % 49.53% 06.20% { Tc9h }
Hand 4: 05.1130 % 00.00% 05.11% { AcTs }
Hand 5: 01.5621 % 01.02% 00.55% { random }
Hand 6: 02.3470 % 01.26% 01.09% { random }

[AASooted]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 2: i'd raise the flop here and call a 3 bet...but then lead the turn, hoping to get raised. we dont want to knock him out but with 2 different flushes possible now i hate giving him a free/cheap card. we are ahead here nearly 100% of the time, IMO. BTW, heads up id cap with TT, especially against this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right. This guy was probably going to call or raise most anything. It's hard to tell exactly what he'd have done in an average situation, because he made his set of jacks on the turn. It made me feel pretty stupid about slow-playing at the time, but I'm almost certainly caught up in results-oriented thinking.

Thanks to everyone for their input so far.