88 and 99 after UTG raises

[mister]

I've found myself really hesitating at times with these hands. If you know UTG to be a solid tight player who knows his way around a flop, and you know that other solid players behind you will raise quality hands, how often are you folding 88 and 99 in UTG+1 to that raise ? Would calling maybe induce more callers and create the multiway pot we want ? Because let's face it, by the time there's 6 people in, we're not winning this with the overpair. How often do you 3 bet this if the table is really tight ? In late position I'll gladly do that, but UTG+1 this is still a hole in my game. I know folding can be correct. I always feel so violated though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[sy_or_bust]

Don't cold-call from UTG+1. And there really isn't a reason to get involved against a tight UTG raiser, whether you're isolating from UTG+1 or CO (not much difference - very very few hands will cold-cap behind you). The 3-bet is a bit better against a player capable of raising KQ/AJ/77-88 in this spot, but it's never awful to fold.

[Pokey]

Sy's advice is solid, so I don't need to elaborate on it. However, you made one comment that I needed to respond to:

[ QUOTE ]
Because let's face it, by the time there's 6 people in, we're not winning this with the overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the time you've got six people in, you don't NEED to win this with the overpair. Now, you've got outstanding odds to call for set value. You'll flop a set once in every 8.5 attempts. With six players, you can afford to miss 15 out of 17 times, folding to any bet on the flop, and then collecting enough extra cash from the two you hit to make this quite the profitable proposition. Just because a bet is a long-shot doesn't mean you should avoid it -- it just means you need better odds in order to chase it. With six players in the pot (including you) you're getting 5:1 from the money already IN the pot. You only need an extra 2.5 bets somewhere between preflop and showdown. Even if you played this for a raise, that's only 2.5 more big bets somewhere on the last three betting rounds, and you've got five potential suckers to pay you that currency. This is a profitable bet, every time.

Even if one of the five players in the hand turned up AA, I'd still call two preflop, and I'd still be right to do it.

[mister]

That was sort of what I was implying: That we wanted a big multiway to get our odds in place for set value (ie we'd need to improve). I'm currently folding about 90% of the time, so I'm glad I'm not misplaying them. Just feels weak-tight, even though I guess it's solid.