Paradise 20/40 short

[Ikke]

It's 4 handed 20/40 at Paradise.

I'm in the SB with KdKc. UTG, who is going to be the only player involved in this hand, raises. First, some information about UTG.

I havent played with him before, but we have been at this table for about an hour now. I've attacked his blinds quite a bit (I'm on the button when he's in the BB), and he lost a lot in these match-ups. The last blind steal he way overplayed his hand, so it seems to me that he might be on semi-tilt (against me at least). For the rest he almost always plays fast, but often fails to value bet the river. That's about all I've got.

So, he raises, and I 3-bet and it's heads-up.

The flop comes 4h Kh 8h

I bet, he raises, I 3-bet and he caps. My first question is right here: would anyone merit just calling the first raise?

Turn: Qc

I bet, he raises, I reraise, he caps, I call. Again: anyone given the information just call the raise?

River: 8s

I bet and he calls. Obviously I win the hand, but did I play it right or put in too much with what might be a dog?

Would it make sense to play this way against a good(Paradise 20/40) player?

Regards

[Dr.Kimble]

you played the Hand Perfect [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Ikke]

Do you still think that way if my opponent where, lets say, Angelina or Piesang? (if you don't know them, just assume a very good player ;-)

And is in your opinion calling the flop raise (way) inferior to 3-betting? If so, why?

Regards

[J_V]

Hey Ikke.

I would have played it the same way. There are a few opponents who I would have just called their turn raise but not many. The fact that he was on semi-tilt is more than enough to go to the mat against this guy. If the player is very good, you can maybe slowdown on the turn.....but you need to make sure the river doesn't get checked.

By the way, if I tilt, it's not overall tilt, it's player specific. A very good observation on your part Ikke.

[Tyler Durden]

You flopped a set of kings; I'd say you're way ahead. He may have a heart, he may not. If he's tilting against you, get your money in early, he'll want to jam it with you.

Played very well. You extracted the max.

[J_V]

How do you get KK in a shorthanded game? Let's here hands about the J-9s that you spend most of your time picking on the blinds with. This one was easy.

[Dr.Kimble]

Angelina or Piesang are real TAPS( both professional tight aggressiv Player) both understand what is Position,and in a shorthandend games a raise mean not much ,all Taps 3betting more Hands in a shorthanded game then in a full Ring game .
[img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Shorthanded tend to be more tricky moves [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Ikke]

I'm desperately trying to find something in your post that I either haven't said before or something that is related to my question. I failed in both.

I don't have to "be careful what you learn " if there isnt anything to learn, is there?

Regards

[Ikke]

I was mainly thinking about the flop 3-bet. Against this opponent I think 3-betting is the way to go, but against better opponents a case for calling can be made IMO.

If you 3-bet a good opponent on the flop here, you probably arent going to get much action on the turn if he has a mediocre strength hand or a good draw. However, if you just call you might extract extra bets by going for the ol stop-and go.

Here's why:

After having 3-bet preflop, the flop bet is automatic and my opponents raise doesnt mean much. He might have a pair or something which he want to protect, a (good) draw, or just put me to a test. If I call there, virtually no information is given away.

Now, a stop and go bet on the turn might trigger some action. A lot of good players love to raise quite light on the turn in position (leaving the option to check behind on the river open). I can certainly imagine that I will get raised again by a king, a queen and even hands like Ah8 etc. Also, he might put a move on me again with the Ah.

And ofcourse, now I can 3-bet and he probably will call with a lot of hands (having either a redraw or might believe there's still a chance he's ahead). Against a good opponent, if I had 3-bet the flop, there would be a good chance he would just have called a turnbet, because of the strength I gave away on the flop.

Another advantage is that if a flushcard comes on the turn, you lose way less.

What do you think?

Regards

[vulture]

Ikke,
I didn't read the other posts, but this is how i see it.

'The last blind steal he way overplayed his hand, so it seems to me that he might be on semi-tilt (against me at least).'
I think this is the most important information, why I say you played it perfectly.
Normally (against a good player) there is a big chance you will kill the action if you three bet the flop, but because he's way overplaying his hands (against you), you don't have to be scared to loose the action and in this way you absolutely got the maximum amount of bets out of it.

Now answering your last question: I don't think it's profitable against good players for two main reason's.
1. There is a big chance you'll kill the action.
2. If he hits his flush (on the turn), you save yourself a lot of bets.
So less bets to win, more bets to loose.

Hope to be helpful and if you don't agree, please reply.

Vulture