Looking for a different line on a flopped Full House

centja1 · #1 07-15-2005, 01:27 PM

SB is 33/0 over a paltry 9 hands
BB is 42/7 over a slightly better 100 hands

I bet the flop figuring that nobody would fold for one small bet in a four-way, raised pot on a broadway, two-toned flop.

Anyway, the all-in caller had to call with whatever he had, but should i have checked the flop hoping to induce a bluff on the turn from one of the blinds or let them make a second best hand? Should this always be the line or should i mix it up here?

I'm inclined to think that the all-in player essentially ruined my action since the blinds would have to have some sort of reasonable hand to continue.

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls $1.50 (All-In), SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (4.87 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (4.87 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: 4.87 BB

shant · #2 07-15-2005, 01:29 PM

Some days someone else will have an A, or a Q, or a pair they want to take to the turn. Other days they won't. Such is poker.

W. Deranged · #3 07-15-2005, 01:41 PM

I think a check is probably a little better here. If someone does have another A, they may slowplay it to, but you won't lose too much overall action because things will start to go crazy on later streets. If you let people peel one off they may pick up a bunch of draws on the turn: a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would be fantastic and any broadway/playing zone card may give someone a pair or a straight draw.

You have too many of the good cards. With the likelihood the all-in will kill your action if you bet, check and hope to let other people catch up.

sy_or_bust · #4 07-15-2005, 01:42 PM

This is silly. You won't get paid off in any scenario unless SB/BB has a pocket pair, draw, ace, or queen. When they don't, you won't earn anything worth talking about. You're much better off focusing on hands with real decisions.

krimson · #5 07-15-2005, 01:44 PM

With MP2 only having 1.50 left I would check the flop. Chances are MP2 will put his chips in (why would he bother saving less than sb?) and people will be more likely to call this down as it is not as threatening as a pre-flop-raiser betting at this board.

If this worked, just call the flop when it gets back to you, and bet the turn if it gets checked to you. This will all-in-all leave SB and BB a bit more confused as to what is going on and you might be able to scape off a few more bets.

edit: This move is obviously pretty speculative, but I think will net you some chips a bit more often than you betting out.

baronzeus · #6 07-15-2005, 01:45 PM

The best you can hope for is for someone else to have a flush draw of sorts or a straight draw. Checking this flop is not horrible but only morans won't realize that you flopped some sort of monster.

Just bad luck for you I guess. But at least you didn't lose the hand!

sean c · #7 07-15-2005, 01:50 PM

Um anyone would have to have a reasonable hand to continue. Just bet and hope people with draws or the case ace call or raise. You need to get bets in early when drawing hands will pay to see additional streets. Checking to allow players to catch up here is just leaving money on the table.

W. Deranged · #8 07-15-2005, 01:58 PM

I disagree. This is a situation, in my opinion, where you are more likely to get money in on the turn if you give people a chance to pick up an additional card to improve their hand. There is a section in HPFAP that explains that slow-playing is actually the most profitable course in cases where you have basically all the good cards, because it is so much more likely that your opponents will have a serviceable hand if given a free card. You may miss a few small bets when people have legit draws (clubs) or something, but I think you'll win it back with increased action.

sean c · #9 07-15-2005, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. This is a situation, in my opinion, where you are more likely to get money in on the turn if you give people a chance to pick up an additional card to improve their hand. There is a section in HPFAP that explains that slow-playing is actually the most profitable course in cases where you have basically all the good cards, because it is so much more likely that your opponents will have a serviceable hand if given a free card. You may miss a few small bets when people have legit draws (clubs) or something, but I think you'll win it back with increased action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make this a rainbow flop and I would agree with you but having the four flush plus gut shot and possible case ace being out makes this an easy bet IMO. FF or case ace call if not raise. Gut shot and mid to small pp are the only hands that may fold to a flop bet that we allow to improve on the turn and they could very well call a flop bet also. In short this flop is just too draw heavy to miss a value bet on the flop.

baronzeus · #10 07-15-2005, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. This is a situation, in my opinion, where you are more likely to get money in on the turn if you give people a chance to pick up an additional card to improve their hand. There is a section in HPFAP that explains that slow-playing is actually the most profitable course in cases where you have basically all the good cards, because it is so much more likely that your opponents will have a serviceable hand if given a free card. You may miss a few small bets when people have legit draws (clubs) or something, but I think you'll win it back with increased action.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this situation is that hero raised preflop. Had he been in the big blind with J6 and he checked it, and the flop came JJ6, checking is the best option.

Checking here might work at lower limits, because people tend not to notice when a raiser doesn't bet a monster flop and try to draw at their backdoor straights, but I think it's not a good practice to get into.