newbie's first omaha/8 session - comments wanted

Hi everybody,

I've been lurking here for a few weeks, and reading everything I can find on the net on Omaha Hi-Lo. Trying to get away from the Holdem grind, especially in light of the opinion expressed by some that limit Omaha Hi-Lo has a slightly lower variance and potentially higher expected return.

I finally got the courage to sit down with $25 at a limit .50/1 limit O8 table at Party Poker. Played 75 hands and came out with $23.18. One short session is too soon to tell, but it seems that the variance is quite low, I fluctuated between $18 and $26 during the session.

Anyway, I would appreciate comments from experienced players such as ATE or Greg (love the website by the way, very informative!) on the starting hands that I saw a flop with, I have listed them below. I know a lot of the time it may depend on factors such as position and number of callers but I had enough of a challenge just evaluating my starting hands. You can infer what position I'm in, I've marked down when I was in the blinds.

[ Qd 7h 4d 7s ] (BB)
[ 6c Td Kc Ts ]
[ 5h Tc 4d 9s ]
[ Td Qs 8d 2c ]
[ Jh Qs 6h 4d ]
[ 4d As 5h Qd ] (BB)
[ Jd 2d 3h 8d ] (SB)
[ 8s 6c 2c Qs ]
[ 9d 2h 6h Ad ] call
[ 6h 5c Qd Td ]
[ 8d Kc 7s 2h ]
[ 3s 9s 8s 4s ]
[ 7c 5c 4c Jc ]
[ Ts Qh 4h Kc ]
[ 5s Ad 7d 9s ] (BB)
[ As Td 8c 7c ] (SB)
[ Qh 3c 8c 5c ]
[ 2d Ah Qs Js ] call
[ Ts 4c 5h 3d ]
[ Kd 2h Js Jh ]
[ Jc 3c 6c Qc ]
[ 5s 3c Qs Ks ]
[ Kc Ad Kh 9c ] call
[ Kh 7d 9s Kc ]
[ Ac 6s 5d 7h ] (BB)
[ Ts Kc 5s Ks ] (SB)
[ 5c Qc 9c 9s ]
[ Th 6d Kc Qh ]
[ Kh Ks 8c 7h ]
[ 8h Js 6h Td ]
[ 8c 6d 9s Qc ]
[ 9s 7c 2c 5h ]
[ 5s Kc 6d 7c ]
[ 4d 2s 5d 4s ]
[ Qs 5d 2h 9c ] (BB)
[ Qc 9h 9s 8h ] (SB)
[ Td 6h 8s 2s ]
[ 3d Qh 8s 7h ]
[ Th 4c 9d Kd ]
[ Th 8h Ts Qh ]
[ 4d Td Ad 8d ]
[ 2s 9h 4h 3d ]
[ Ad 4h Jd Ts ] (BB)
[ As Jh 5d 4c ] (SB) call
[ Jd Qs Ah Th ] call
[ 5s 9c 4s Qd ]
[ 6d Js 9s 2h ]
[ 6c Ts 7h 7c ]
[ 2c 4c 6d 8d ]
[ Qc 8d Qs Ks ]
[ 5s 9d 5h Ts ]
[ 5d Jc 8d 8c ] (BB)
[ 8d 4c Th 4d ] (SB)
[ 8h 5c Ks 9h ]
[ 7c Qh Qc As ]
[ 8d Jh 9h 9c ]
[ 6c Jd Kc Qs ]
[ 7d 9h 2c Ad ] call
[ Js 3s As 4s ] call
[ 7c 6c Kh 7d ] (SB)
[ 4c Kh Kd Tc ]
[ Jd 9h 2h Ad ] call
[ 8h Jh As 9h ]
[ Kc Qd 5s Ad ] call
[ 3s 7s 7h 9d ]
[ 4c 3s Ts 8h ]
[ 4d 8d 7s 5d ] (BB)
[ Js 5h 3h Th ] (SB) call
[ 7c Jd 9d 6h ]
[ Qs 3h Jh 3d ]
[ 9d 8h 9h 2c ]
[ Jd Ac 8h Ad ] call
[ Jc 6c 2s 3h ]
[ 5h Js 9d 2d ]
[ Ks 9c 5c Td ]

Final statistics:
saw a flop in 19/75 hands dealt = 25.3% (boy it didn't feel that high but I did make a few loose calls towards the end of the session)

excluding big blind hands 11/67 = 16.4%

So which hands can I loosen/tighten up on? Thanks for any comments!

[wiseheart]

Looks like your play is pretty solid, but I
think your play might actually be a little
too tight, and that you might be a rock. Of
course, Im kind of assuming that PP .5/1 is
as loose or looser than PokerStars at the
same limit (and Im pretty sure that it is)
Given that, I would say you should be playing
those hands with three wheels cards that you
folded, and maybe even the 236x hand. So, with
that stated Id put some more hands in and see
how it goes, and if you simply can't make a
profit at .5/1 move down to .25/.50 where being
a rock can be more profit or stay where you are
at and add some more preflop/postflop aggression.

Hope this helps, maybe greg or ATE will have better advice.

[dcasper70]

Generally, your hand selection looks pretty good for an O8 noob. Outside of the blinds, I only saw 2 borderline calls ([Jd Qs Ah Th], [Kc Qd 5s Ad]), but at the limits you were on, even those can be played in certain situations.

You've already found Greg's site, that's some +ev.

I suggest familiarizing yourself with my pal Edward Hutchison (link). He'll help you in determining relative preflop hand strength (no post flop or position help).

Also, read every single post you can find with any input from Buzz. He's frighteningly got too much info in his melon. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Good luck!

[chaos]

Avoid hands where all four cards are not coordinated (unless it contains A2). The object of High-Low is to scoop the pot. you need all four cards working to improve your chances of scooping.

A lot of these hands only have three cards working. If you do not have a premium low hand your hand needs to be very strong for high. I would fold every hand on the first orbit:
[ 6c Td Kc Ts ]
[ 5h Tc 4d 9s ]
[ Td Qs 8d 2c ]
[ Jh Qs 6h 4d ]
None of these hands has a reasonable chance of making a nut low and they are not that strong for high.

Anyone who thinks these hands are pretty good, clearly does not understand the game.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally, your hand selection looks pretty good for an O8 noob. Outside of the blinds, I only saw 2 borderline calls ([Jd Qs Ah Th], [Kc Qd 5s Ad]), but at the limits you were on, even those can be played in certain situations.


[/ QUOTE ]

I call ATsQJ for one bet every time. Four high cards and a suited Ace makes for a good hand and it's easy to get away from if the flop comes mostly low.

[Kc Qd 5s Ad]: I would complete the SB with this but probably not call with it unless I'm in late position with few limpers. It looks like a good hand but you only have 3 cards working for your high and the 5 is useless unless you flop a miracle 234.

I'll agree your (OP's) starting hand sleection looks pretty solid. It's funny how the stats show you're playing 33% of hands when it feels like you're playing 15% sometimes.
16.4% is pretty tight, but it was a short session and you were dealt a lot of crap hands.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
[ Jd Ac 8h Ad ] call

[/ QUOTE ]
Depending on my position and action in front of me, I fold this. I think I'd fold this every time if I'm in early position. You have no realistic low and your high just seems too vulnerable to me. And it can be a difficult hand to get away from because if you get a mediocre flop, it's hard to tell where you stand. It's too easy to get beat by a crap two-pair, set, baby straight, etc.

[chaos]

[ Kc Ad Kh 9c ] call
I would not call with this hand in early position. You need QJT to make a straight and that is a lot to hope for. 9s tend to taint high only hands. Your 9 adds little value other than being suited. This hand would be much better if the 9 was a Q, J or T.

[ Js 5h 3h Th ] (SB) call
This is a piece of cheese. Even for the redued price I don't think it is worth a call. What boards are you hoping for? A 2 4? A K Q? Too much of a longshot.

[BettyBoopAA]

Looks pretty good for someone learning the game. It's better to start off tight when first learning this game. Later you can loosen up as you get more experience. some hands are hard to say whether you play or not because it matters how many people are in the pot and your position and how players play after the flop.
Usually at these stakes you should play these two hands
4d Td Ad 8d ]
[ 2s 9h 4h 3d

[dcasper70]

[ QUOTE ]

[ 6c Td Kc Ts ]
[ 5h Tc 4d 9s ]
[ Td Qs 8d 2c ]
[ Jh Qs 6h 4d ]
None of these hands has a reasonable chance of making a nut low and they are not that strong for high.
Anyone who thinks these hands are pretty good, clearly does not understand the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who thinks OP played these hands, clearly does not understand the post. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Please make sure your critical comments are on target in the future. Your contributions to this forum are respected, and I'm assuming this was an innocent error.

No offense taken from the first reply, in light of chaos' subsequent reply I think it was pretty obvious that his first post was a misunderstanding of the hands I played.

I appreciate everybody's comments so far, had another couple of sessions of Omaha/8 and wow it's really a breath of fresh air compared to Holdem. I'm starting to get a better sense of how to play pre-flop, I'm going to post a few hands later on to show off my pretty horrendous post-flop play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]