mike l., stiffing the dealer, breakfast and Tommy's take...

[DanS]

...in no particular order.

So I'm playing the 6-12 at Lucky Chances, having resigned myself to not play 6 and 9 rather than 15 and 20 until I *earn* the bankroll for those games. One limper, and I raise my BB. Limper folds to a flop bet. I don't tip. See, I've forced myself to only tip in 9-18 and below on reasonable sized pots, but not when a steal raise or floptakeit occurs. I prepare to post my SB, dealer realizes I'm not throwing him the green chip, and scowls. Few hands later, I win a reasonable sized pot. I throw him a buck. He doesn't even acknowledge it. This makes me not happy. It's later compounded when I see a dealer coloring up her tokes (which included some $3 and $5 chips, and she cleared $80 in four downs. Unfreakingbelievable.

I thought back to mike l.'s old threads about not tipping, and while I didn't think he was a nit/[censored] like everyone else, I really can feel where he was/is coming from now. A little adversity really causes people to show their true colors (talking 'bout the dealers, not mike), and a player who realizes (as I do) that tipping is appropriate to supplement their income, but refuse to toke $4 every fuckin' pot get scowled at. That makes me mad.

I went out to breakfast this morning for the first time in a while, and my bill came to a whopping $7.96. I left $12, and I felt damn good. Not like I was a superstar by any means, but it was a hell of a lot more satisfying than (over)toking dealers. In fact, I think I'm only going to tip a buck like once every other down, and save the rest to buy Clarky, Dynasty, the Babe, or any other 2+2ers breakfast when I'm in Vegas in March. At least they'll appreciate it.

I'm done ranting about this. I feel all better now. I wonder what Tommy (who has been kind enough to call me on being FOS in the past) and others might have to say about anything and everything tipping wise.

DanS

P.S. mike l., you're my hero (seriously). Please don't take anything I said badly.

[mike l.]

a few things:

in my one foray into higher stakes (60-120) a couple weeks ago i dont think i saw more than 5 tips given the entire 4 hours. and each time it was for $1. and we're talking like $1000+ pots over and over and over.

as for dealers frowning or not saying thank you, man that peeves me. i mean, youre just giving them money. theyre not entitled to it in any way. $1 is not the biggest deal, but at least a polite thank you would be appropriate.

last thing though: i think rude, superstitious players should be forced to tip on the pots they win. it'd be like a tax on their stupidity and their inevitable cruelty towards dealers. this would include players who turn to the fella next to them and say "she kills me every time!" pointing at the dealer when they miss their gutshot chase to the river in a heads up pot. there's no excuse for making a dealer feel bad about delivering the cards.

since ive been playing in a smaller room lately on a regular basis and am trying to keep myself in a pleasant mood at all times i do tip maybe a couple times every session. i reserve this for dealers who are quiet, are paying close attention, and are quick.

[J.A.Sucker]

This is an especially irritating topic for me, since I agree with you totally. Dealers who demand tips and don't appreciate them when you get them shouldn't see another chip from you. If they have a problem, you should talk to the floorman. You're paying a lot of money to be in that game, it's the least that they can do for you. If they don't like it, then you should just go elsewhere. Same goes for restaurants; I went a horrible restaurant in San Fran last weekend, full of surly waiters and terrible Italian food (in North Beach, no less!), and I was tempted to not even pay my bill when they brought the thing. I did, and I even left a tip, though I regret doing that.

[Tommy Angelo]

"I wonder what Tommy (who has been kind enough to call me on being FOS in the past) and others might have to say about anything and everything tipping wise."

I've dealt. You and mike haven't. We can't really talk about this in a productive way because our experiences are too vastly different (or more accurately, unalike.)

But I'll go ahead and do it anway.

It has nothing to do with tipping. It has to do with how you feel about dealers and any other tip-based service jobs that hand power over to anyone with a buck. That power will be abused. To widely varying degrees. Just a matter if it's you, or the other guy, who does it.

Tommy

[brad]

1) i think you shouldnt tip the guy after he scowls at you.

2) i think you should tip a minimum of 5 bucks at restaurants that dont cost a lot, except when convenience dicatates otherwise, like its 16 bucks for 2 people and you just leave a 20.

[MRBAA]

I'm a recreational player, low stakes ($3-6-$5-10) and I tip .50 on every pot $20 or more I win. Tips are an expected part of income for dealers -- not a luxury. You are expected to tip, but not required to do so.

The dealer is expected to be courteous, professional and acknowledge your tip. When they are not/do not you are justified in witholding your tip. When they are extra good at their job and/or make the game extra good by their demeanor you should tip more. In casinos where dealers keep their own tips, this matters. When they pool them, it doesn't.

Acting as if tips are a luxury and dealers are making a bundle in salary and tips are just gravy is denying reality. When you refuse to tip, you are deciding not to do your part to give the dealer a living wage. If you are broke yourself and scrapping for every dollar, that's justifiable. If you are not, it's being a jerk IMHO.

[RINCON]

You don't want to tip don't.Thats your progative but it gets harder and harder to find good dealers.If one guy scowls at you,all the other dealers you encountered that day shouldn't be punished.Dealers make nothing in wages and put up with a ton of crap to earn the wages that they make.A great dealer probaly only makes 50-60 grand a year at most.This is not a great wage trying to make a living in expensive cities such as L.a.,Vegas,or Phoenix.Cost of living is out rageous in these cities.So you morons who lose thousands a year gambling and then bitch about tipping are fools.The higher the limit the less people tip.Most dealers would rather deal 4-8 as this is where their money comes from.These people are there to have fun and dont care about a few bucks.Its the so called pros sitting there with thousands in front of thim who cant spare a dollar.Karma goes a long way in this world.These stiffs are the ones who get there food spit in and their drinks pissed in and they dont even know it.This dont make much since but im typing it in a rage.Just remember poker is expanding rapidly and if you want good dealers tipping is a must.Dont let one [censored] dealer screw it up for the rest.

Have a nice day!!!!!

RINCON

[DanS]

Thank you all for the excellent responses.

Even though I talk tough, I have no follow through. Or, to be more accurate, I wouldn't stiff all dealers because one's an ass. I think I tipped $1 x 3 the next down.

My point wasn't that I wanted to be, or ever will be a stiff. It's like reffing/umping hockey/baseball. The good players know why you do something, even if they are a little begrudging about it. While I'm not a working pro, I do subsidize my income with poker for now. I think a dealer should appreciate a $1-2 per down toker who helps push cards in, never flings 'em at the dealer, and NEVER abuses the dealer as much as the $3-5(or more...this is California!) tipper who think that every other dealer is their "unlucky dealer." (Norcals may know "Uncle Bill," the resident needler at LC's). I played 7 downs with him, and only 3 dealers were the "unlucky" sorts).

I don't want a medal, I just want the gawddamn dealer to rap the tray with the chip and acknowledge my tip. I don't care if it's voluntary, expected, this, that, or the other. Just don't be a robot that can't wait to go play pai gow tiles with my illforgotten money. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Dan

[Punker]

The day I started playing extensively online is the day I cut my tipping at the B&M casino back approximately 90%. I provide a casino with the same level of business that I provide an online room, and I expect to be offered competitive conditions.

[brad]

'1) i think you shouldnt tip the guy after he scowls at you.'

i mean that down or maybe even that day but after that its a fresh start.