2 Tags reraising my 9's

[fooz]

I open from the CO w/99. TAG on the button 3-bets. Tag in the SB 4-bets. Fish in the BB calls. And we both call.

Flop is TT2r.

Tag bets, fish folds, my action?


(20/40 PP)

[W. Deranged]

Request a seat change button.

[fooz]

HAHAHAHHA [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] HAHAHAHAHHA [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[W. Deranged]

Fooz,

Seriously, though. Work on seat selection here. You are in a bad position. You will get consistently isolated/shut out by the two tags, as happened here, and they will be the ones who get to reap the benefits of the fish since they are in a better position to manipulate him. I think that this post is very indicative of the importance of relative position and indicates a place where you might have the oppotunity to make better decisions.


As for the hand in question: If you plan on continuing, raising is imperative. With that said, it is quite likely on of the Tags behind you has a big pair. The button may have simply been making a solid, Taggish isolation move, but the SB capper probably has a hand. You can gamble that it's overcards and hope your hand holds up, but the play so far indicates it is extremely unlikely you will get to the river cheaply here, you will be dodging many cards when you are ahead, and you have the uncertainty of an aggressive player behind you left to act.

Pre-flop action + bad relative position + reverse implied odds = FOLD

[krimson]

I thought having the tight players on our left and loose players on our right is optimal? Our raises will take the button more often and we're given the first opportunity to put in an isolation raise. Or are more specifically looking for tight passives on our left?

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought having the tight players on our left and loose players on our right is optimal? Our raises will take the button more often and we're given the first opportunity to put in an isolation raise. Or are more specifically looking for tight passives on our left?

[/ QUOTE ]

If other TAGs have to be at the table with me, I'd prefer to have them on my left over having them sitting to my right.

[W. Deranged]

Think about how the table would lay out: the big fish is three to hero's left, which means he has basically no control over him (there are many player to act after fish and before hero). Having tight players on the left is good, but having aggressive players on the left is bad. Tags, in my opinion, should be kept on the opposite sides of the table, while fish should be kept close by. Proximity is key.

This hand is illustrative. Hero will find himself often getting isolated by taggish players. Any steal attempt/power play he might try will face doubly harsh resistance. He will be forced to play many hands against quality opposition out of position. And the presence of not one but two tags and the fish all together means hero will often have exactly 0 ability to manipulate the pot or the flow of play because of the interference. These are all bad things, needless to say.

[fooz]

Thanks Deranged. I hear you about position.

I folded as did the Btn...probably isolating. Even if I was ahead...the chance that either of the tags would outrun me probably tips this more to folding.

[sfer]

Call.

[callmedonnie]

why call? hope for rags, and think that pair is stronger then overcards? maybe even see a 9?