Good Fold?

Two_Slick · #1 07-13-2005, 04:01 PM

Table is very loose and fairly aggressive. I've seen villain play just about any hand regardless of number of bets to him. I hate folding on the river to a LAG capable of a bluff, but the bet seemed very out of place (and it seemed like a terrible place to bluff since I haven't folded to agression regularly).

Party Poker (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG + 1 Calls, Villain (SB) Calls, Hero checks.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero Bets, UTG + 1 calls, SB calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG + 1 folds.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB Bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot:

We were HU for 1 hand at the end of the session and he made a similar bet:

Party Poker (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero checks.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero Bets, SB Calls.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB Bets, Hero Raises, SB folds.

Final Pot:

He could have made a move the 2nd time thinking I would fold to any A on the river. Thoughts?

TStoneMBD · #2 07-13-2005, 04:06 PM

hand 1 is a good fold

hand 2 is a terrible river raise. the line should be call.

Two_Slick · #3 07-13-2005, 04:22 PM

Didn't think much about it at the time, but you're right, the only hand calling/raising here is one that beats me. Anyone think hand 1 is a bad fold?

baronzeus · #4 07-13-2005, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't think much about it at the time, but you're right, the only hand calling/raising here is one that beats me. Anyone think hand 1 is a bad fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. I can see him folding a better 6, or a 9 here given the flushed board.

TStoneMBD · #5 07-13-2005, 04:38 PM

wait so you believe that the river raise is expert? or are you just trying to correct a technicality to make yourself look good while confusing a poster's correct thought process?

Two_Slick · #6 07-13-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Didn't think much about it at the time, but you're right, the only hand calling/raising here is one that beats me. Anyone think hand 1 is a bad fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. I can see him folding a better 6, or a 9 here given the flushed board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you in some instances, but my raise in this case was not to induce folding a 9 or smaller PP (the only better 6 is a K6 [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). This guy was a complete LAG and I think he would have called/raised my raise with even low pair if he had it. I would try a river raise against tighter players if I thought they may fold a 9 (although I would have expected a bet on the turn with a vulnerable hand like 9x). I think at the time my raise might have been for value (as bad as that sounds) because the villain was so loose and I thought he might look me up with very little. After re-assessing, I think calling the river on Hand 2 is the right play here... anyone else?

DavidC · #7 07-14-2005, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
wait so you believe that the river raise is expert? or are you just trying to correct a technicality to make yourself look good while confusing a poster's correct thought process?

[/ QUOTE ]

Relax, man. The guy's got like 600 posts... I've said a few incorrect things myself (probably even in the last 5 minutes)...

DavidC · #8 07-14-2005, 11:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Didn't think much about it at the time, but you're right, the only hand calling/raising here is one that beats me. Anyone think hand 1 is a bad fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. I can see him folding a better 6, or a 9 here given the flushed board.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should focus on things like whether or not that's going to happen often enough to make a raise worth-while, as well as the risk of being rebluffed (folding to the 3-bet) from a worse hand.

You should also think about whether or not this opponent realizes that it's a flush board (yet), though he WILL when he thinks about your raise. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

--Dave.

sy_or_bust · #9 07-14-2005, 11:06 AM

River raise sucks because you had the lead and the ultimate scare card hit on the river. An aggressive opponent is usually bluffing here and will never call. There also aren't many weaker hands he will call with, though there are plenty of better ones. Hero would have heard from a nine on the turn, and a 6 or worse on the flop/turn - these hands aren't around.

W. Deranged · #10 07-14-2005, 11:34 AM

All beware the Darth Tater avatar...