Lack of Patriot Act hurts the UK

[Broken Glass Can]

The UK is having problems tracking the terrorist cells that coused the recent bombings in part because they do not have the use of some of the procedures that the US does in the Patriot Act.

Many of the muslims the Brits were watching were totally surprised by the bombings. The ones they watched were not aware of the other cells planning these acts. Now the British are asking the US for some help from the US, because the US can use provisions in the Patriot Act to investigate cells that may have been in contact with the bombers.

The Patriot Act saves lives in the US.

Don't you forget it!

[HtotheNootch]

The Patriot Act is an unConstitutial violation of every right an American should hold dear.

BTW, name me one life it's saved.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

I think most Brits are even willing to accept some terrorism instead of getting a Patriotic Act, but maybe some Brits might answer. I would prefer some terror in my country to Patriotic Act atleast (at some point of course there is a trade off).

P.S. I have noticed that while most other names it UK or Britain, Bush says Great Britain emphasizing Great. Even though I don't like this guy he is charming sometimes.

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]


BTW, name me one life it's saved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very cute.

You know that when you stop a terrorist who is killing random people in society, you can't identify who was going to be killed until they actually kill them. Not knowing who is alive today because of the Patriot Act, doesn't make those people's lives any less valuable.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
The Patriot Act is an unConstitutial violation of every right an American should hold dear.

BTW, name me one life it's saved.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is hard to argue against Broken Glass Can's claim that it saves life. Policing and anti-terror efforts will always be a trade-off between crime/terrorism prevention and freedom/human rights. If the police would make preventive arrests on all psychiatric patients with profiles that makes them potential killers, murder rate would go down.

I just don't want to live in that sort of society though.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't want to live in that sort of society though.


[/ QUOTE ]

You got it.

Of course the Palestinians refugees get to live in that type of police state under Israeli occupation. I suspect that some Iraqi's believe they live in that type of state under US occupation.No rights just police state.

Now Americans are living under a (so far partial) police state.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


BTW, name me one life it's saved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very cute.

You know that when you stop a terrorist who is killing random people in society, you can't identify who was going to be killed until they actually kill them. Not knowing who is alive today because of the Patriot Act, doesn't make those people's lives any less valuable.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is obviously no way you can prove that Patriot Act has saved a life. You would have to prove that a terror attack would certainly have happened without the Patriot Act AND that no other means of stopping that terrorist act was even possible.

Your logic is like that safari joke: one guy keeps throwing a piece of paper outside his tent once per hour. The other guy says "why are you doing that?" First guy says "to keep the tigers away." Second guy says "but there aren't any tigers around here." First guy says "see? it works."

Yes, the joke is stupid and the analogy breaks down, as all analogies do. I'm not saying the Patriot Act hasn't worked, or that it might work in the future. I'm saying you can't prove it works. The only thing for sure about it is that it infringes on our rights as free citizens.

-ptmusic

[coffeecrazy1]

"Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
The Patriot Act is an unConstitutial violation of every right an American should hold dear.

BTW, name me one life it's saved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Name for me all the times your civil rights have been violated under the patriot act...

[coffeecrazy1]

Well, I would, but the government won't tell me.