Am I correct to slow-play here?

Cased Heel · #1 07-07-2005, 06:37 PM

25 NL cash 6-max Party.

I have AK clubs, in a 4-way pot (I think I minraised preflop and got 3 callers). Anyway, flop comes something like K 8 5 with two clubs. I've hit TPTK and a re-draw to the nut flush. I'm second to act. First position bets small, my first instinct is to raise and isolate, but then I think it's safe to go for the 2 overcalls (sorry to use a limit term in here) here?

Well I did, I just called his small bet and the other two called as well. I think I was correct in slowplaying here, which is weird, b/c I think slowplaying is almost always going to bite you in the end, but in this case I think it's correct for me to try to re-draw to the nut flush on an unpaired board. (Hoping someone made a lower flush as well).

The result was that my high pair held up as I saw the showdown with 1 opponent. No flush, but what are your thoughts?

nathan_hicks · #2 07-07-2005, 06:54 PM

This may be just me, but I never slow play TPTK. The hand is not all that strong against three players. I raise and try to get heads up in this situation. TPTK in a 4 way pot rarely holds up, but heads up its a pretty strong hand. By calling you give the people in the pot the chance to see the turn card for cheap possibly making two pair for one of them.

I guess it depends. Are you willing to give up TPTK on the turn if you dont hit the redraw and face a big bet? I will always lead out and bet though.

Its good to see you won the hand though.

xorbie · #3 07-07-2005, 07:01 PM

The main problem here is that you don't charge flushes enough. They will call 1/2 potsize bets, so feel free to raise. A king will also call.

Cased Heel · #4 07-07-2005, 07:10 PM

As someone stated, I'll only make my flush about 35% of the time, however, I think the rest of the time my TPTK should play quite well in this pot. Especially if I spike an Ace, I'll probably get paid off by a weaker ace, or someone with two pairs Aces up but are worse than mine.

Also, when I DO make my flush, the implied odds may or may not be fairly large. As with 3 other opponents in the hand it's not totally illogical to think that someone else does not have club-club here. I think you're right in that a raise here will get a call from a king, but that's about it. The 8 and 5 aren't going to pay me off much here...

I basically am not very comfortable here with TPTK against 3 opponents, but I feel if we keep the pot small, and I improve, then I'm sitting quite pretty against someone who may hold K8. I basically turned the hand into a limit hand where I think my EV^ if I wait for the flush to hit. TPTK isn't the best hand to play in a 4-way pot. It's difficult to get away from. The nut flush is not [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

xorbie · #5 07-07-2005, 07:15 PM

You really don't want people with a 5 or 8 staying around. If they spike two pair, you're in trouble.

nathan_hicks · #6 07-07-2005, 07:20 PM

I did not see that there were two clubs on board. You are not going for a redraw to the nuts, you are on a draw to the nuts. I still bet it though. You want the people drawing to a smaller flush to pay for their draw. If you hit it on the turn after you bet the flop you can check hoping they made the flush or they might bluff the flush thinking the card scared you.

PoBoy321 · #7 07-07-2005, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You really don't want people with a 5 or 8 staying around. If they spike two pair, you're in trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain to me again why you want players with worse hands to fold when they have incorrect odds?

xorbie · #8 07-07-2005, 07:23 PM

Because they are calling a small bet with two already in the pot, and therefore have correct odds?

nathan_hicks · #9 07-07-2005, 07:25 PM

I agree. If somone is mini betting you are getting odds to call anything.

nietzreznor · #10 07-07-2005, 07:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Explain to me again why you want players with worse hands to fold when they have incorrect odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what was meant was that by not raising here, you would be giving mid/bottom pair hands a good price to stick around. Raising, on the other hand, would either fold them out, or let them call when they are making a mistake (so obviously we would want them to call if we were to raise, as you suggest).