I love maniacs(Low Content)

blackize · #1 07-05-2005, 08:24 PM

They loosen up the whole table and drive implied odds through the roof.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 raises, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB calls, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (24 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 34 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Js Qc (three of a kind, jacks).
Hero has 9h 9d (full house, nines full of jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 34 BB.

sweetjazz · #2 07-05-2005, 08:29 PM

I really don't understand your PF play at all. Assuming MP2 is the maniac, you absolutely must reraise PF in order to bait MP2 into 3-betting and hopefully isolating the field. Your hand will do much better heads up against a more or less random hand for 3 bets PF than it will against a random hand and two hands more likely to contain overcards for 2 bets each PF.

After the flop, the hand plays itself.

blackize · #3 07-05-2005, 08:47 PM

Im playing solely for implied odds at this table. Since everyone else isn't giving him credit for a hand they are much much more willing to call slim. That means that if I hit my hand I will make a killing.

I want more people in for hands like this, I am playing fit or fold post flop while they will call down with any piece of the board. This way when I bet the maniac does my raising for me and nobody suspects my hand is that strong.

oreogod · #4 07-05-2005, 08:51 PM

sweetjazz · #5 07-05-2005, 08:57 PM

I think seeing a flop for several bets PF with 99 when there's a maniac at the table with the intention of playing fit-or-fold is bad strategy. Depending on position, you may be stuck playing roughly this strategy, but it is not the optimal approach.

You are hoping to win a huge pot, and giving up too many chances to win a moderate sized pot against the maniac. The fact that you were able to make a killing with this fortuitous flop does not make your approach optimal.

[ QUOTE ]
they will call down with any piece of the board

[/ QUOTE ]

So why do you care if they know whether or not your hand is strong? You and the maniac can pump the pot if you hit a strong hand, and they will call down with any piece of the board. And if you're afraid that people will fold on the flop if they don't catch anything, that's what you want to happen with a vulnerable hand like 99. Because you shouldn't be giving up on the flop just because there's an overcard on board and a maniac is betting.

I love people who play fit-or-fold against maniacs and want implied odds. That lets me isolate the maniac with my strong hands and win pots with AJ unimproved or when my 99 holds up on a KJT44 board.

blackize · #6 07-05-2005, 09:00 PM

Lol, nah Im just bored waiting for hands like that to pay me off huge.

blackize · #7 07-05-2005, 09:05 PM

Well its also very very easy to read the other players involved. They raise when they hit their obvious hand or draw.

Also the dynamic of this table was that if you have face cards you are either calling or reraising. There is no such thing as isolation. I can raise with KK and get reraised by AJ on this table, called by the maniac, and called in at least one other place.

When I said they are calling down with any piece of the board I also meant that they will chase overs and call with their pocket pairs. So my chances of isolating him are nil, BUT I will get paid off by everyone else in the process. Trying to beat 3 or 4 players with a hand like 99 is difficult especially when you can't tell when to let go vs the maniac. Fit or fold is pretty much the only way to play at the table in question.

oreogod · #8 07-05-2005, 09:16 PM

Lets see if we can make this thread into something. Take out the 9 on the flop. Turn it into a 6.

Whats our course of action. (of course now we know SB had Jacks...but if we didnt know that, what do we do?)

sweetjazz · #9 07-05-2005, 09:20 PM

Not raising PF and then check-folding UI on the flop is a great way to punish someone for cold-calling with 88 PF. You'll really show them when they win the pot against the maniac's 75.

blackize · #10 07-05-2005, 09:27 PM

Bet, 3bet, call the cap from the maniac. Check fold the turn unimproved.

Edit: Improvement would mean a gutshot or set.