KQ early position

grouchie · #1 07-04-2005, 09:59 AM

Giving limit another shot, been reading through my SSH and WLLH trying to get a feel for the game. Moving to Vegas in about 10 months so when I get there I want to beable to find a good game weather it's NL or Limit and play in it.

How was this hand played?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Button calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, Button calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

jrz1972 · #2 07-04-2005, 10:02 AM

Raise PF and lead the flop.

Dave G. · #3 07-04-2005, 10:09 AM

The PF limp is bad. Raise it, or if you don't feel comfortable raising from so early, fold it. Limping is the worst possible option. You're playing this hand mostly for high card strength. Not being suited, the multiway potential of this hand is limited, so you want to cut down the field with a raise. This will also fold some of the weaker ace hands that could threaten you on the flop. You must raise this hand.

On the flop, you should either lead it yourself or checkraise it. I like a check-raise on this unco-ordinated board, because if you do have the best hand now, it is likely still to be best at showdown. Leading the flop is not a bad option though. Check/calling is too passive. You either fail to collect value from your hand or fail to protect it properly.

The way you played the flop makes the turn play fairly standard, but you may have just clubbed someone who is beating you into submission, because you don't really know where your hand stands right now (another reason why a flop raise is good).

The river is standard.

McGahee · #4 07-04-2005, 10:41 AM

C/R the flop. You get control of the hand earlier, and may fold an A when you bet the turn. Sometimes AK will check thru this turn and your C/R will whiff, which would be horrible.

The rest is fine. I don't know how this "limping KQ/AJ is the worst option" bandwagon got started, but it's crap. I think it makes people feel good to say it because they convince themselves that they're "tight aggressive" - but really - I haven't seen any evidence that raising is significantly better than limping in EP. Folding sucks. Limping is much better than folding. But hey, I've had this discussion 1,000 times.

car ramrod · #5 07-04-2005, 10:55 AM

mcGahee

you really don't think raising KQ or AJ pf ep is the best play. I raise this like 99% of the time.

Cheshire · #6 07-04-2005, 10:59 AM

I am relatively new to this so if I am horribly wrong then sorry. Am I the only one who likes the check raise on the turn? The hero's hand is quite strong in this situation. There are no draws and he has one of the two overs in his hand so if a king comes great. By check raising on the turn he gets an extra bet from hands like a lower pocket pair that are only drawing to two cards. These hands might have gone into check call mode after getting checkraised on the flop.

McGahee · #7 07-04-2005, 11:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
mcGahee

you really don't think raising KQ or AJ pf ep is the best play. I raise this like 99% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I don't think you're making a mistake - it may be the best play depending on the table.
I think it's very close though, and it irks me when people get so worked up about it every time somebody posts one of these hands.

TripleH68 · #8 07-04-2005, 11:24 AM

Whether to raise KQo preflop has been discussed many times previously. I have been convinced raising is the best way to play it.

PT stats...

KQo 173 times.
VP$IP = 84%.
PFR = 71%.
W$WSF = 43%.
bb/hand = 0.45.

McGahee · #9 07-04-2005, 11:28 AM

Interesting post newb - that's actually a decent point.
I guess it would depend on the looseness of the PFR. If his raising standards are at all like mine, then you're probably right. Then again, if I were villian I'd fold to the C/R with JJ/TT, check with AK, and you're obviously screwed if I have AQ. If you C/R the flop I'll be a little confused and not as sure you have a Q.
Of course, a lot of players will call down with JJ/TT in this spot, but a lot of Party .5/1ers don't raise PF with hands like TT either.

Actually, the more I think about it the less I like it [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

car ramrod · #10 07-04-2005, 11:37 AM

I know what you mean, it has been discussed a million times. But after reading all the discussion I think most agree its a raise.

I just like the fact that an early raise will face a weak A with 2 bets and hopefully get them to fold. Not to mention, when you get weak hands to call you, you've got a lot of value in your raise.

But it is close, so who cares.