QQ vs cap: an Ace falls on the Turn

Argus · #1 06-28-2005, 07:22 AM

No read on villain since I'd been at the table for only an orbit or two when this hand happened. He hadn't done anything outstanding (smart or dumb), and seemed a little loose over my insignificant sample size. Assume him to be an unknown 36er, whatever that means to you. When I sat down the table was full, but it started to clear out. I don't know who is going to adjust to the short handed game, but I haven't noticed an increase in raises. Two to my left was a player named Peter__rus. I couldn't figure out why peter_rus would be slumming it at 3/6, and it really puzzled me despite being irrelevant to the hand.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Super Sharp Shooter is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Super Sharp Shooter 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG caps, Super Sharp Shooter calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Super Sharp Shooter calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Super Sharp Shooter?

Please comment on all streets but particularly the turn action. My action and explanation to follow your insightful discussion.

sekrah · #2 06-28-2005, 07:46 AM

You probably should have raised on the flop..

He definently has you beat after the turn IMO.. A-A, A-K, or K-K..

Fold on the turn, save yourself some bets.. You could catch a 4-flush but you could also be drawing dead to it if he has King of Spades (possible), and it'll cost you two more big bets..

Save your two big bets, and fold.

halis123456789 · #3 06-28-2005, 07:57 AM

PF seems fine, you now have some info. on his hand. I like just calling on the flop. If he has AA or KK then raising will accomplish nothing but getting more money in the pot. If he's drawing to a flush or big cards, he's not going anywhere with all the money in there.

On the turn a call has to be in order. Unless he has a pair of Jacks (doubtful) you are surely behind here. If he has KK then the Ace surely upset him, but he's still not going to fold. You have a pretty good flush draw and you're getting odds so make the call and hope that it's live.

On the river: If a Queen hits I would raise one time, but no more as he may have trip Aces. If a non-spade, non-queen hits I think it's a pretty easy fold. If a spade hits then just call, and of course (my favorite) if the King of spades hits then ram and jam.

Nick C · #4 06-28-2005, 08:54 AM

I suppose you could semibluff-raise and try to drive out KK, but I'd probably just call (KK will have a spade half of the time anyway, and I doubt he'll fold regardless, as people tend to hang on to their premium pairs). Raising could also get you a free showdown against J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], but this is Party 3/6 and Villain capped preflop, so I doubt that's what he has, and if you suspect those hands, you could just call again on the river anyway (or bet if checked to, when you quite likely will be called).

Anyway, I think I'd just call the turn. That leaves the question of what you should do if you're bet into again on the river and you're unimproved.

I'd probably call, but folding could actually be better. In my recent experience, JJ and TT don't seem to be big Party 3/6 capping hands, and with those hands, there is some chance Villain would check to you on the river.

Edit: But, you know what? AKo doesn't seem to be a big capping hand either. I'd call down. (And of course I'd raise the river if the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] fell.)

jskills · #5 06-28-2005, 09:20 AM

I'd raise the flop - there are no overcards to your pair and if you're against JJ maybe he just calls and does not lead the turn. Since you only called, you're not sure if you're up against AK or JJ when the A falls on the turn and he bets.

Without raising the flop and seeing whether he 3-bets or calls, it's difficult to narrow the range of hands down.

You've got to be looking at AA, AK, KK, QQ, or JJ, so I think it's ok to fold to a turn bet here, however it does appear you have pot odds to see the river and see if you can make the second nut flush.

mute · #6 06-28-2005, 09:22 AM

I would go ahead and raise the flop. Though you will slow him down if he has AK, he might actually just call you down, where he would possibly fold UI to a raise on the turn. Also, I don't like waiting until the turn to find out, that he likely has a bigger pair.

Raising the turn doesn't look like a good idea, since there is no way, you can fold to a 3bet.

Given that it's 6-handed, I probably call the river as well. You have shown no strength postflop so far, so he could still be betting JJ or TT here. I would expect to lose, though.

HajiShirazu · #7 06-28-2005, 09:37 AM

I think the decision here is on the river, whether to call unimproved. I wouldn't have raised the flop either, because as was said most people have a pair of aces or kings when they cap in this spot and AK will never fold anyway so you're no favorite and you can't protect your hand when it is good. And personally I think if the guy bets the river, it's pretty close as to whether you're going to be good often enough to call, and folding is probably right.

Nick C · #8 06-28-2005, 09:38 AM

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I would go ahead and raise the flop. Though you will slow him down if he has AK, he might actually just call you down, where he would possibly fold UI to a raise on the turn.

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I doubt he'll fold the turn with AK. In any event, we'd like for him to, at this point.

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Also, I don't like waiting until the turn to find out, that he likely has a bigger pair.

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You won't find out. Sometimes he'll call the flop and checkraise the turn or even (worse for us) the river.

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Raising the turn doesn't look like a good idea, since there is no way, you can fold to a 3bet.

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Yeah, I think you're right.

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Given that it's 6-handed, I probably call the river as well. You have shown no strength postflop so far, so he could still be betting JJ or TT here. I would expect to lose, though.

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I didn't notice the 6-handed nature of the table when I responded originally, and it is a factor.

So is this: How long has the table been 6-handed, and has it been getting more or less populated?

Sometimes, when people adjust to a table getting short-handed or filling up (which they don't always), they don't do so immediately.

So tables that are filling up can remain LAG, and tables that are getting depleted can stay tight, temporarily.

mute · #9 06-28-2005, 10:09 AM

When I said he might fold the turn, I meant UI. I'm not sure if that is what you mean as well.

I guess you are right, that we won't always find out, if we're ahead or not on the flop, though if villain 3-bets, we can slow down. Also getting check-raised on a blank turn, would still save a ½ BB as opposed to calling the flop, and getting 3-bet on the turn.

If villain pulls a stop'n'go it could get expensive, though, but I still prefer to raise the flop.

Nick C · #10 06-28-2005, 10:35 AM

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When I said he might fold the turn, I meant UI. I'm not sure if that is what you mean as well.

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After a flop bet and call and a turn bet and raise go in the pot, Villain would have the odds to call with AK unimproved. So I'd prefer for him to fold.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess you are right, that we won't always find out, if we're ahead or not on the flop, though if villain 3-bets, we can slow down. Also getting check-raised on a blank turn, would still save a ½ BB as opposed to calling the flop, and getting 3-bet on the turn.

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If I'm calling the flop, I'm probably doing the same on the turn. (I don't like waiting until the turn to raise against someone who very likely has AA/KK.)

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If villain pulls a stop'n'go it could get expensive, though, but I still prefer to raise the flop.

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Given the 6-handed nature of the table, I like a flop raise more than I did originally. It kind of depends on what adjustments people have been making, though, really.

In my experience, at Party 3/6 full, preflop caps tend to mean big hands, except when they come from known LAGs.