QJs Hand

[El Dukie]

Great live 15-30 game. Nice and loose, not very aggressive. I pick up Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the button. Two limpers to me. I opt to limp. (I raise here maybe 1 time in 4.) The SB calls, and BB (ABC-type) raises. Limpers both call. With position, and a guarantee of 5-way action, I now 3-bet. (Mistake?) SB calls all-in for two more chips, BB now caps. Everyone calls. Okay, so I know BB has AA or KK. Slight chance of AKs, but almost certainly AA or KK. 13 sb main pot + 5 sb side pot.

Flop is J 3 2 rainbow with 1 spade. BB bets out. Both limpers call. I've got top pair, but I know I need to hit another J or Q, or backdoor a flush. Still, I'm getting better than 20-1 and can close the action. Easy call. (Anyone raise here to get BB to 3-bet and pressure the limpers...?) 22 sb total = 11 bb.

Turn is an 8, completing the rainbow. BB bets. One limper folds, 2nd limper calls. Caller is loose, not the most passive player but not particularly aggressive, either. I'm getting 13-1 to hit a Q or J. I call.

River is a beautiful Q. Top two pair. I just cracked his AA or KK. BB bets out. I'm loading up to raise him, when, much to my surprise, the limp-caller raises.

How's my play been so far, and what's my river action?

[Lestat]

QJs is a good multi-way hand and I don't have a problem raising multiple limpers or even 3-betting from the button every once in a while against multiple players, because in addition to the multi-way nature, you'll also have some deception going for you.

But in this hand, your hand is almost as easily defined as the big blind's (because you limped first, then re-raised). So this probably isn't good enough to shoot your implied odds by having it go to 3 bets pre-flop.

By the time the river gets there, it doesn't take a genuis to know you've got a suited jack. What's your side card is the only question.

If the big blind's dumb enough to overcall for one more bet after you cold cold-call the raise on the river, then that's the way to go.

[mike l.]

"(I raise here maybe 1 time in 4.)"

and yet you know it's correct to do in that game 100% of the time right? so why do you still tend toward weak tight? even nits like gabe and his son raise preflop here. heck i bet rick even raises here more than 1 in 4 times!

that out of my system, i admire the preflop 3 bet. but only for spunk value, it's actually a bad idea because abc bb is far too likely to have AA or KK, even before he caps. there's no way the guy has AKs even before he caps, you know it and i know it. no abc type in that 15-30 cakewalk has AKs in the bb and raises there. no chance.

oh my word you have to raise the flop. there bb and the field are too likely to go limp and give you the free card on the turn in that game. youre 0-3 so far and it's not close, let's see the turn.

turn is fine.

go ahead and hem and haw on the river and agonize so that bb will overcall, and then cold call. your hand is very very likely good but you dont want to pay two more bets to be shown T9 (not at all impossible in that game), a small set (very unlikely), or a chop. bb will overcall here every single time.

wow it is really easy to analyze a hand from a game im so familiar with in terms of the way they play. i gave you really good advice re: this hand i hope it helps you.

[mike l.]

"But in this hand, your hand is almost as easily defined as the big blind's (because you limped first, then re-raised)."

no. these people he's playing with are mentally retarded. they will have no clue what he has. they will put him on QQ or 77 or AA or something that makes no sense if they even bother to start thinking about what he might have. which they wont.