fundemental short handed concept I'm missing

[mister]

picture a 6 handed 3/6 stars game. Game is weak, but will typically have 1 decent LAG, 1 decent TAG, and some fish.

You (or I) correctly raise UTG with a hand like QJs
All fold to the button who correctly raises his hand (unknown to us) to get it heads up with us.

Let's say that this guy would make this play with anything from 77 (or even lower maybe) to AA, and all the decent big connectors and Aces. So he could have AK just as often as 77 here.

When the flop comes KQx, giving us middle pair, what is your line UTG ?

I looked at this today trying to figure out 3-4 possible ways to tackle the hand.

1) Bet, he raises (correctly), I ?

I can see myself calling, then checking and calling to the river if the board stays more or less the same

I can see myself 3 betting that flop in the hopes of maybe getting a feel for his hand

I can't imagine I'd ever fold.

2) check raise the flop

How many of you do this ? If you check raise and he 3 bets, do you fold ?

3) check call to the river. Is this giving him too many cheap cards ? Is our hand strong enough that we'd want to be protecting it ?

4) check call the flop, check raise the turn on a card that doesn't appear to change the hand. Anyone do this ?

I'm guessing that what makes a good player good is the ability to mix up the lines here to confuse other players. i'd just like to know if any of the lines I suggested weren't even worth doing (and if so, why). thanks a bunch,

M

[DMBFan23]

I like to check call the flop here... c/r opens us up to a 3 bet and that's just spewing with second pair versus a pf three bet. plus I'd rather make more when ahead which I can do by having him bet the turn as well.

if he often checks behind the turn (who really does that tho) then I consider a turn donkbet, but probably still check call as I'm not really worried about many free cards if ahead...

it seems passive I know but so many times he will hang himself with a much worse hand that will fold to your aggression. when you hit the flop harder then you can start to think about making the most from his second best hand

[mister]

That just seems like we're always going to

1) pay him off to the river with no sense of what he has
2) maybe miss value bets when we have him beat

although I could see it saving us bets when he does have us beat ! argh, I feel so raped check calling

[spydog]

I check-call this the entire way unless I improve. I'm not folding anywhere and I'm not going to give him the opportunity to punish me if he has me beat.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel so raped check calling

[/ QUOTE ]

These forums will beat aggression into your head (which is good most of the time). However, playing passively in the right situations is vastly underrated here, IMO.

[joker122]

i check raise the flop alot here to get an idea of his hand.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
c/r opens us up to a 3 bet and that's just spewing with second pair versus a pf three bet. plus

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have an easy checkfold on the turn IU - that's the advantage.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
That just seems like we're always going to

1) pay him off to the river with no sense of what he has
2) maybe miss value bets when we have him beat

although I could see it saving us bets when he does have us beat ! argh, I feel so raped check calling

[/ QUOTE ]

What % of the time are we ahead here? If it's more than 55% you can put in a raise somewhere but if it's less you just want to get this to showdown based on the size of the pot pf. In your example you are only sweating one more overcard and have very little reason try to protect. If I'm raising anywhere in this hans it's because I think I'm ahead a large % of the time or because I think a better hand will fold enough to make a raise profitable. I fold if I think I'm behind a high enough % that calling down is not worth it. This sitaution seems like a good time to check/ call it down to me unless we improve.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
i check raise the flop alot here to get an idea of his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you need to get an idea of his hand? Can't you just play this passively and get a perfect picture of his hand when you show this down? You can't possibly fold this and playing back at him will make him fold a worse hand or give him a license to punish you with a strong one.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
i check raise the flop alot here to get an idea of his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? You should already have an idea of his hand from his PF action.

IMO, as a general rule, any play you make with a decent made hand HU, in order "to find out where you stand" is wrong.

This hand is no different than any other "way ahead, way behind" hand. And a c/r is clearly wrong in these spots