Should I fold the river?

Nilbud · #1 06-24-2005, 10:07 AM

I have a tendency to call a river raise almost every time and I'm trying to learn when it's best to fold. Is the pot too small to call him down??

MP1 is 51% VPIP through 35 hands which makes me think it's quite possible he has an Ace, but then again, he didn't raise the turn. I didn't have much on CO as he'd only played a few hands at that point. I did think it was fishy that he'd bought in for 10BB.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (7 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, CO folds, Hero...

Final Pot: 11 BB

jrz1972 · #2 06-24-2005, 10:13 AM

Raise PF.

The river is crying call, getting 10:1. Villain will occasionally be getting out of line with a weaker K, thinking that you "can't" have an A with two on board. He might think the river counterfeited your 87, for example. You're probably losing, but I think you're good one time in eleven.

crownjules · #3 06-24-2005, 10:14 AM

First, you should be raising KQo from EP.

If MP1 is passive post-flop, I'd lean towards folding because it's almost a certainty that he's raising with an ace. But one more bet getting 10:1, I'd probably make the crying call.

imported_The Vibesman · #4 06-24-2005, 10:19 AM

I think the pot is big enough to call and make sure he is not bluffing the ace.

Don't just limp this hand in EP, raise. Limping encourages more limpers, and the next thing you know you're playing this against 5 people out of position. You've probably heard that by now tho... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Nilbud · #5 06-24-2005, 10:19 AM

I've quit raising KQo from EP because it's my biggest loser. I figure it's probably my post-flop play that is losing me money on it, but I felt like I should take it out of rotation until I get PF nailed down a bit more.

jrz1972 · #6 06-24-2005, 10:22 AM

That's not totally unreasonable, and whether you raise PF with this hand or not isn't going to make a huge difference either way. But raising PF often simplifies the post-flop play.

Nilbud · #7 06-24-2005, 10:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But raising PF often simplifies the post-flop play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I see how it makes it easier. If the flop misses me entirely, and there's an ace on the board, I feel I have to bet out anyway because I raised pre-flop. If I limp, I can fold after the flop if it doesn't hit.

davelin · #8 06-24-2005, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But raising PF often simplifies the post-flop play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I see how it makes it easier. If the flop misses me entirely, and there's an ace on the board, I feel I have to bet out anyway because I raised pre-flop. If I limp, I can fold after the flop if it doesn't hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's an easy solution, don't feel you always have to bet the flop is you raise pre-flop.

@bsolute_luck · #9 06-24-2005, 10:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've quit raising KQo from EP because it's my biggest loser. I figure it's probably my post-flop play that is losing me money on it, but I felt like I should take it out of rotation until I get PF nailed down a bit more.

[/ QUOTE ]

so wouldn't it be smarter to fold it until you're more comfortable PF? the problem with limping offsuit overcards is you start a chain reaction of limpers and giving great odds for many card combinations to limp in that would have otherwise folded (ie Ax-suited). by raising you limit the field and buy outs.

any i still am working on solving my "autobet"-itis. the best way is to reread and reread and reread the overcards section of SSH at evaluating the flop and go from there.

Nilbud · #10 06-24-2005, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]

the best way is to reread and reread and reread the overcards section of SSH at evaluating the flop and go from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice, thanks.