The stop n' go

Redd · #1 06-23-2005, 01:24 AM

The SNG is a play that I almost never use, and now I'm trying to find appropriate situations to use it. Villain here is a SLA-A after a decent number of hands; the read is in accordance with the numbers. He's pretty solid, knows when to bet but plays a few too many hands preflop.

In this case, I didn't want to give him a free card in case he had clubs. I didn't really want to call him down in the smallish pot. So is it wise to spend 1BB to be reasonably certain you're behind, as opposed to spending 2BB to find out for sure?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 4 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

bottomset · #2 06-23-2005, 01:56 AM

i don't like the flop lead or the turn lead or the turn fold, all in all i don't like the postflop

Jaran · #3 06-23-2005, 02:06 AM

I'm not sure I like your line here. This looks like the classic WA/WB situation. What exactly did you hope to accomplish with your bets here? (I think writing out your reasons would be a good idea)

-Jaran

Redd · #4 06-23-2005, 09:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I like your line here. This looks like the classic WA/WB situation. What exactly did you hope to accomplish with your bets here? (I think writing out your reasons would be a good idea)

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

I noted my main reasons in the original post. Rather than spending 2BB to be 100% sure if he has a better ace, I'd spend 1BB to be 90% sure. Free card blocking, small pot to call down in, etc.

@bsolute_luck · #5 06-23-2005, 10:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I noted my main reasons in the original post. Rather than spending 2BB to be 100% sure if he has a better ace, I'd spend 1BB to be 90% sure. Free card blocking, small pot to call down in, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

but you didn't spend 1BB - you bet the flop (1 sb), MP1 raise, you call (1 sb). turn you bet (1BB)= total 2BB

and i don't understand your "free card blocking theory" at all.

cold_cash · #6 06-23-2005, 02:29 AM

I think this is an interesting hand.

I don't really like the flop bet, although there probably can be an argument made for pressuring the small blind and getting him out of there. (I wouldn't be overly concerned about him in this instance though. The only hands we can protect against by facing him with two bets are getting pot-shorted by just calling one.)

Usually I would check and call or check and raise the flop.

Since you did stop and go I imagine your turn fold is okay, providing that there's no chance MP1 semi-bluffs twice in a row with a club draw, or raises twice in a row with a worse hand. If you're confident in those two things, okay; if not I would take a different line from the turn on. (Either check-calling the turn and betting the river, or just check-calling down.)

Redd · #7 06-23-2005, 09:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like the flop bet, although there probably can be an argument made for pressuring the small blind and getting him out of there. (I wouldn't be overly concerned about him in this instance though. The only hands we can protect against by facing him with two bets are getting pot-shorted by just calling one.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's exactly why I led. I was hoping that villain would raise to push out SB; my concern was that I'd rather keep SB out with a 9 or a weak ace, which might be avoided when he was facing two bets.

I'm actually interested that you and bottomset wouldn't bet the flop here; I generally try to lead into the pfr if I know he'll continuation-raise and put some pressure on the people behind me, and perhaps it's a big leak. Would you be willing to explain the advantages to check-raising?

cold_cash · #8 06-23-2005, 10:26 AM

If MP1 is going to be raising a lot of hands in this spot pre-flop, and then auto-betting the flop, (like many players will), I would be tempted to check-raise.

If he's tighter and more passive I would lean toward check-calling, (at least on the flop).

I'm not too worried about the SB because he's probably drawing pretty slim. What live hands can he have? Either got a 5 outer with 9x or 3x, a gut-shot w/ 24, or a club draw. Anything else and he's even further behind.

If he wants to call the flop with one of those hands getting 7:1, I'm okay with that. The only hand I'd really like to see him fold is the flush draw, and that's never happening.

Vagrant · #9 06-23-2005, 03:02 AM

This wasnt a stop and go at all. It was a stop and quit. How semi-loose was he really? If he is in the 25-35 VpIp range I think the probability that the villan had you beat was less than the probaility that you had the best hand. There might be a case for you folding to a <25% VpIp, but still why would you stop and go against an aggressive player unless you thought you had the best hand and the villan had second best? This is just a stab at the pot at best. You would have had to reraise the turn for it to be a stop in go .

[ QUOTE ]
The SNG is a play that I almost never use, and now I'm trying to find appropriate situations to use it. Villain here is a SLA-A after a decent number of hands; the read is in accordance with the numbers. He's pretty solid, knows when to bet but plays a few too many hands preflop.

In this case, I didn't want to give him a free card in case he had clubs. I didn't really want to call him down in the smallish pot. So is it wise to spend 1BB to be reasonably certain you're behind, as opposed to spending 2BB to find out for sure?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 4 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

cold_cash · #10 06-23-2005, 03:08 AM

How does the villian's looseness figure into what our Hero's best play after the turn raise should be?

I would be worried less (i.e., not at all) about his VP$IP, and more about how aggressive he is/isn't.

And he told us why he stop and go'ed: To avoid giving a free card in case his hand was best. The villian raised and said AJ is no good, and our Hero surmised he wouldn't say that if he didn't really mean it, so he folded.