check-folding

donger · #1 06-22-2005, 04:57 PM

This situation comes up quite frequently in a passive game.

Villain in these hands is the 60/10 buddy-lister. He will bet if checked to, but otherwise plays passively and will call you down with any hand or draw. He is insensitive to pot odds, and representing hands is lost on him. This is close to the ideal opponent in most cases.

Since this guy is in so many pots, this situation comes up frequenly. How do you guys handle this, and what kinds of factors do you consider in deciding whether to bet or check?

Do you guys start checkraising this guy frequently in these small pots to encourage him to play his hand honestly?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 1.70 BB

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 1.70 BB

J.R. · #2 06-22-2005, 05:15 PM

but otherwise plays passively and will call you down with any hand or draw.

not the spot to throw chips around with K and T high IMO

ayecappy · #3 06-22-2005, 05:18 PM

to me those are standard folds for a couple of reasons.
the pot is very small so a bluff has to have a very very good chance of winning.
if you are behind you have a very small chance of improving(one overcard, one card backdoor draws etc.)
if you are ahead your opponent might have good redraws, in both hands there are a two flush, if you make top pair overcards could still come to your pair, if he has a low pair he has five outs to make twopair or better.

Grisgra · #4 06-22-2005, 05:21 PM

Bet the flop in each case. You only need to pick it up ~40% of the time to make this worthwhile. If he calls, then (probably) check/fold the turn unimproved.

CostaRicaBill · #5 06-22-2005, 05:31 PM

I have this same question except for when he calls in the SB first in and I check with trash in the BB. Then on the flop, he checks to me, I bet with nothing and he calls almost every time. I usually just check behind on the turn unimproved, he bets the river and I fold. Is there a better line? Should I just go ahead and check the flop knowing that he will call no matter what?

mister · #6 06-22-2005, 05:50 PM

Does the check/fold unimproved on the turn basically leave us at the mercy of anyone who wants to take the pot from us right there ? I find myself always folding once I check the turn. The only way I could see myself preventing that is check raising the turn, but I would probably just end up missing out on bets in the long run there. I'm also struggling with giving hands away when I totally miss a flop. It's easily the biggest hole in my game.

Grisgra · #7 06-22-2005, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does the check/fold unimproved on the turn basically leave us at the mercy of anyone who wants to take the pot from us right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, but this is passive-donk boy. And we can always checkraise the turn when we actually have a hand. I'm not too worried about this guy being tricky. If he turns out to be tricky, then I start doing other stuff to mix up my play.

But based on this guy's descript, he seems pretty passive. I bet the flop 90% of the time, and if he's super-predictable, raise preflop with any half-decent hand (like K3o) half the time and auto-bet the flop.

donger · #8 06-22-2005, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does the check/fold unimproved on the turn basically leave us at the mercy of anyone who wants to take the pot from us right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, but this is passive-donk boy. And we can always checkraise the turn when we actually have a hand. I'm not too worried about this guy being tricky. If he turns out to be tricky, then I start doing other stuff to mix up my play.

But based on this guy's descript, he seems pretty passive. I bet the flop 90% of the time, and if he's super-predictable, raise preflop with any half-decent hand (like K3o) half the time and auto-bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is, this guy would call both times if he had the hands we're considering bluffing with. It makes it hard to think we're going to pick up the pot 40% of the time here.