PlayerView/GameTime+ Alternative Technical Discussion

[PokerAce]

I started this post so that some of the technical details of the application can be discussed. We can also discuss other things regarding the application.

First, I want to ask everyone what they think of the name "PT Hud" for the application. It stands for "PokerTracker Heads Up Display." It's short, simple and rolls off the tongue.

The version of the application that everyone is using right now was pretty much a rushed effort to get a working application out there before the free PlayerView releases stopped working. It's a simple application that has one big loop. It checks for new HHF files, gets the player information from the database, then displays the stats on the windows until the next time it loops around. It works, but it's limited in what it can do and has problems. Someone mentioned in the previous thread that the stats sometimes don't draw properly. This is due to the program not being in the drawing portion of the loop. It also makes it difficult to do such things as showing the mucked cards and so forth.

To solve these problems, I need to use threads. In the new version that I'm working on, I have one thread that constantly searches for and reads from all the HHF files. It can send out a notification when anything happens at a table: a player sits down, a player leaves, someone raises, someone shows down (or mucks at river) their hand, etc.

I plan on making it so that you never really need to "refresh." The application will know exactly when a player leaves, so their stats will disappear as soon as they do. The application will also know when someone sits down and will immediately fetch their stats from the database. To cut down some on the database access the number of refreshes per player will be limited based on how many hands you have with that player. For example, a player you have 50 hands with will have their stats refreshed every 5-10 hands. However, someone you have 2000 hands on will only be refreshed every 50 hands or so. There will be ranges for this and it will be configurable.

Another thing I really want to do is have the mucked hands at showdown shown. Since the HHF reading code can send a notification immediately at showdown, I want to be able to use the PartyPoker card images to show what was mucked. Basically, you won't be able to tell the difference if someone showed their hand or mucked. Is this a good idea or would it be better to just show the text for the cards? Also, all stats will disappear at showdown so that they do not cover anyone's cards.

Another thought I had was to remove stats for those players that are no longer in the hand. For instance, when a hand begins, it will display everyone's stats. If someone folds, their stats will disappear as you don't need to worry about them. I'm not really sure if this is a great idea or not. It would take a good deal of work, but if it's a feature everyone wants, I may make the effort.

If anyone has any more suggestions, please let me know. I am having fun developing this application and want to make it as good, if not better, than the alternatives. Help me do that.

[tallstack]

Thanks for keeping up with this, PokerAce. I would love to see new versions of your program with some of the features you are proposing. One of the things that I really like about the program now is the stability, so I hope that this can be achieved when adding these features. Stability is a big feature to me, so I would trade most any feature for keeping it stable. I am not a programmer and I don't appreciate what affects stability, but at least you have one opinion of the importance of it.

That said, I like most all of the features you proposed, especially your idea for showing the mucked cards. If they can be shown while the final board is still showing it would be pretty sweet. Definitely a huge time saver for a multi-tabler.

Removing the stats for players who have folded is not that important to me, but I play 6-max and the screen has lots of space for the stats. Maybe for full ring games it would add to the clarity, but I would much rather see the other features first. I do think that if you add this feature then you should also consider adding in the suggested feature of showing the previous actions for the players in the hand. Maybe one line for each street or all on one line seperated by "/" for each street.

For example;
limp and call a raise pre flop, check and call a bet on the flop, check and raise on the turn and bet the river could be - lc/cc/cr/b
If check and call need to be differentiated then check could be p - for pass, or something like that.

The only other thing that I could add would be to eventually have the ability to see additional stats when you hover over a player's stats. It would be good to have a longer list of stats for use in close decisions.

Thanks again for the work you are putting into this. I plan on being one of the first to make a donation when you get it setup.

Dave S

[PokerAce]

Stability is very important to me too. I 6-table for 5-6 hours a day and I don't want to deal with an application that's constantly locking up or crashing.

With the mucked cards, I can display them just as soon as they're written in the HHF file, which is at showdown. Therefore, when the winner is showing their cards, I'll be showing the mucked cards at the same time. I'll also be making the stats disappear during showdown.

I've thought about adding the previous actions for each player. Though typically if I happen to forget, I usually just scroll through the chat box to see what happened. If there's enough demand for the feature, I'll probably add it. So those of you who want this feature, let me know.

I'm certainly going to add "hover-box" type functionality. I'm not sure exactly how I want to do it yet, but it will get in there.

Thanks for your feedback.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
Another thought I had was to remove stats for those players that are no longer in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a bad idea. I would rather the stats stay on at all times.

Although stats are most important while in a hand with someone, I am constantly looking at people's stats when not in a hand so that I have that information available to make a quick decision when that time comes.

Even something as simple as glancing at the color of people's vpip tags in the 2-3 seats to my left and right is extremely important information. I don't want these labels to be disappearing and reappearing as the game goes. Especially considering the fact that someone could be a super rock and be folding almost every hand, their stats will then rarely be on the table.

Also, the more often you remove / add stats the more chance their is of bugs causing theirs stats to not come up when they should be there.

If you do add this feature please make it optional.

[gambool]

Just a thought from reading another thread:

PokerNow is detecting PV/PT or possibly PokerStove

Says that PP skins can take a look at what programs you are running. Their T+Cs prohibit the use 'opponent-profiling' software.

I dont if its something worth worrying about. If it is, and they can see what programs you've got running on your PC, would there be anyway to have a 'dynamic' or user defined task name. (I'm guessing that their method would be to check what tasks you've got running).

[MiguelSanchez]

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing I really want to do is have the mucked hands at showdown shown. Since the HHF reading code can send a notification immediately at showdown, I want to be able to use the PartyPoker card images to show what was mucked. Basically, you won't be able to tell the difference if someone showed their hand or mucked. Is this a good idea or would it be better to just show the text for the cards? Also, all stats will disappear at showdown so that they do not cover anyone's cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are great ideas. If the information is immediate, and you can show the mucked cards while they are being mucked, that would be amazing. I would still like to see mucked cards displayed as text from the last hand (at least as an option) since maybe if I'm 4- or 6- tabling I miss what was shown but want to see what the guy folded last time.

[ QUOTE ]
Another thought I had was to remove stats for those players that are no longer in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion this isn't really worth it. The stats probably aren't covering anything up, and it's quite clear who has cards and who doesn't. Unless you plan on expanding the stats shown as the hand is played, e.g. "Folded to river bet after betting out on turn" or "folded to bet with 3-flush".

[Jarekb]

I'll add my vote for showing player actions through out the flop/turn/river. I used to use Poker Office and its live tracker displayed player actions. When I 4 tabled this becomes immensely helpful to know what someone did when you were looking at another table. So it would be great if you can add this, just make it something small underneath their name.

[fooz]

Not as much a technical desire as UI/presentation:

I would REALLY like to be able to adjust position of stats, labels, color ranges and fonts. I prefer a very tight, minimal display as I have to stare at this stuff all day and don't want any more red "paint" on my screen that is necessary. Your current bold font + labels and the grouping is a little intense compared to my PV setup:

http://www.pjpro.com/screenshot.gif

If this request was met, I would be IN HEAVEN. Your app is SOOOO much lighter and more stable than PV, it's ridiculous.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
Your app is SOOOO much lighter and more stable than PV, it's ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts too. I have been using this even in it's infant form over gametime and playerview lately.

I will point out that there are a LOT of configureable options for label placement and whatnot in the INI file. It's just a pain in the ass to try and decipher what everything means.

[PokerAce]

You can change the font colors to whatever you want. I'll be adding in options for different fonts in the next version.

Let me know if you need help changing the colors

I also plan on working on a layout manager as soon as I get the next version released.