Turn raise semibluff?

bobhalford · #1 06-20-2005, 06:46 PM

BB has TAG stats and button is loose-passive (47%/6%/.3)

I think there are few opportunities for this play, and this time, I said WTF, looks like a good spot. Raise, hope the TAG folds, afraid of the flush, and bet whatever comes on the river. Anyone like this line?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, Button calls.

River: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

A_C_Slater · #2 06-20-2005, 06:51 PM

Why are you calling on the flop? Are you hoping to catch a nine? It seems hitting an ace would be a mixed blessing as it's likely to be counterfeited by AK,AQ.

The semi-bluff check raise almost never works. Especially with two opponents.

flair1239 · #3 06-20-2005, 06:52 PM

I have been toying with this lately in different situations. Mainly for two reasons:

1) A lot more people seem to have adopted, the bet an iffy hand one more time on the turn then check the river line or fold to a checkraise.

2) I got sick of people folding to my Value checkraises.

I think this is a good spot except for the fact that the button is a major calling station. I think there is a good chance you were bluffing with the best hand.

However HU against a TAG...AND used judiciously..I think it is a good spot.

hellite · #4 06-20-2005, 07:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you calling on the flop? Are you hoping to catch a nine? It seems hitting an ace would be a mixed blessing as it's likely to be counterfeited by AK,AQ.

The semi-bluff check raise almost never works. Especially with two opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Typical weak tight comment. Semi-bluffs are a major part of hold'em. If you do not use them, you are not winning as much as you should (if you are winning at all). However, you must pick your spots. I'm not sure this is the best play here, but once you popped the turn, you need to follow through with a river bet. Of course, if you get raised on the river you should call with A high so everyone at the table thinks you are an absolute maniac and will pay you off the rest of your session. Of course, only try this at the beginning of your session otherwise its spewing [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

A_C_Slater · #5 06-20-2005, 07:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you calling on the flop? Are you hoping to catch a nine? It seems hitting an ace would be a mixed blessing as it's likely to be counterfeited by AK,AQ.

The semi-bluff check raise almost never works. Especially with two opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Typical weak tight comment. Semi-bluffs are a major part of hold'em. If you do not use them, you are not winning as much as you should (if you are winning at all). However, you must pick your spots. I'm not sure this is the best play here, but once you popped the turn, you need to follow through with a river bet. Of course, if you get raised on the river you should call with A high so everyone at the table thinks you are an absolute maniac and will pay you off the rest of your session. Of course, only try this at the beginning of your session otherwise its spewing [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say never semi-bluff. I said semi-bluff check-raises almost never work. They will almost certainly call you down. They all have a bias towards calling.

hellite · #6 06-20-2005, 07:25 PM

"I didn't say never semi-bluff. I said semi-bluff check-raises almost never work. They will almost certainly call you down. They all have a bias towards calling. "

Players who never semi-bluff check raise are giving away way too much! Not to be abused, but if you never semi-bluff check raise you are getting the worst of it.

toss · #7 06-20-2005, 07:31 PM

That doesn't mean he never does it. Semibluff checkraises have a lot of use HU in blind steal situations. Here however you got a freakin calling station in the hand and you only have A-high.

A_C_Slater · #8 06-20-2005, 07:38 PM

I also object to your saying you should call on the river after check raise semi-bluffing the turn and then getting raised on the river so thay they will then see that you're a "maniac."

Most of the TAGs won't be watching at all because they are multitabling and the others may be distracted by wife, kids, TV, drunk, whatever.

And most of them simply won't think anything about it at all.

jstewsmole · #9 06-20-2005, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Players who never semi-bluff check raise are giving away way too much! Not to be abused, but if you never semi-bluff check raise you are getting the worst of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the normal 2/4 party ur not giving anything away. They dont think as much if at all. Save the more sophisticated plays for at least 3/6 and higher.

U could make an argument to use it in this spot i suppose.

I think u shouldve gotten away from this hand on the flop. For reasons stated in an earlier post.

hellite · #10 06-20-2005, 07:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Players who never semi-bluff check raise are giving away way too much! Not to be abused, but if you never semi-bluff check raise you are getting the worst of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the normal 2/4 party ur not giving anything away. They dont think as much if at all. Save the more sophisticated plays for at least 3/6 and higher.

U could make an argument to use it in this spot i suppose.

I think u shouldve gotten away from this hand on the flop. For reasons stated in an earlier post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this advice at all. Staements like "players hardly think at party 2/4" are retarded. You don't play the game, you play the player. So, of course, you could have gotten away from this hand against a terrible player. This play will work immediately or gain you action in the future against good players. While there are tons of terrible players at party 2/4, there are also very good players. You need to decipher between the two. By the way, party 3/6 has plenty of terrible players also.