Couple of basic questions....

[primetimenole]

1) It seems that alot of the money that I lose is by continuing to play overcards after a ragged flop. Are there some basic guidelines that I should follow when I have, say AQo and don't hit anything on the flop?

2) Also, I have PT and I think I am not playing aggressive enough. One thing is that it seems like I check or call on the flop alot. I think I remember in SSHE that they said if you are going to call a bet on the flop then you should bet. Is that correct? I don't like to bet the flop when there's nothing there in fear of a raise.

Any help would be appreciated.

I am playing low limit HE....

[AKQJ10]

Well, it's an impossible question to answer in the general case because so much depends on the specific texture of the flop, what overcards you hold, what backdoor draws you might have, etc.

But some things you should consider are:

<ul type="square">[*]What is my estimate of the probability that, if I turn one of my overcards, that top pair will win the pot?[*] What is my estimate of the probability that an opponent will make a better hand to beat me? This is where level of coordination comes in -- is the board two-suited? Does it have high connectors that would make someone a straight or two pair?[*]What sorts of backdoor draws do I have? [*]And of course everyone's favorite, How much money is in the pot and what pot odds does it represent?[/list]
There's no single answer but just to take an example, I would estimate AQo on a moderately uncoordinated flop(rainbow, no three-to-a-straight) as being worth 3-4 outs, between 50%-66% of the six raw outs. (Keep in mind every loves to play aces, therefore there's a decent shot that you're reverse dominated and hitting your ace will give someone else two pair. So even a 50% discount may be not enough.) You therefore need between 11:1 (47/4~=48/4=12) and 15:1 (47/3~=48/3=16) to go ahead. If you raised PF as you should have, you might get those odds.

The best argument for raising is probably the free card play, if you have position.

[OrianasDaad]

For low-limit games, SSHE (Small Stakes Hold'em) has the best information for playing overcards post-flop.

Overcards like:
-Non Coordinated flops.
-Few Opponents.
-Passive Opponents.
-Backdoor Draws.
-Being in Position.

[SheridanCat]

You've gotten good advice on the first question.

Your second question is tricky because we have no idea how many hands you've got in PT, so what you're seeing could just be statistics not yet showing you anything valuable.

Remember that when you bet or raise you're giving yourself an additional way to win the hand: fold equity. If the table seems weak, your fold equity may be very high. If the table is passive and fond of calling a lot, your fold equity is low.

Also consider that if you don't have a made hand on the flop, you may still be able to bet/raise for value. Let's say you have four to the nut flush and the board is not paired after the flop (you hold something like A9-suited). There are six other players in. This isn't uncommon at low limits. Every extra bet you can get into the pot on the turn and river is money in your pocket. In that case you're betting and raising for value. (Of course, your flush might not come and you may lose, but that's still theoretical money in your pocket over the long run.)

Don't get carried away with the "if I was going to call anyway, I should just bet" thing - though I think it's usually true at a passive table. If the play has been aggressive, then this doesn't work as much because a raise behind you hurts your pot odds and kills your fold equity.

I'm sure I've said something confusing here.

Regards,

T

[Ben Therre]

I've been playing HE for 14 years and I even got lost with those replys. OK now here's the deal. If you want to be a good player then you need to play alot. Experience is the key. Start at a level where it won't hurt you when you lose often, cause you will. Once you master that level slowly move up. I suggest you try Single table tourneys, you get alot hands for the money and challage yourself to always finish in top 3(the money). Read all the books and threads you like but until you get a real feel for the game and all its varibles it won't make much since.
As to your questions in basic terms. 1) Don't get in a practice of calling with overcards until you understand what your chasing. 2) You need to know when to be aggressive and when not to be. That comes with experience.
Good Luck

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing HE for 14 years and I even got lost with those replys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? What was unclear in the three other replies to the original poster?

Regards,

T

[Ben Therre]

I guess I was being a little sarcastic. 14 years ago I would have said "huh" after reading those replys. I try to speak to new players in very basic language and keep it simple not to confuse them.
GL

[SheridanCat]

The original poster knows what a semi-bluff is. I would expect him to understand the concept of betting for value and also of fold equity.

This is the beginner's forum, true. However, talking down to those who post here and giving trivially simple answers to questions serves no purpose.

Your advice was, basically, "gain experience and then you'll know these things."

I haven't been playing poker 14 years, no doubt about that. I've been playing since 2000. I found these forums early, and learned from them. No one dumbed down the advice, and I'm grateful for that.

Regards,

T

[Ben Therre]

Read the post again he's still trying to learn very simple concepts of the game. In his first question he asked for a BASIC guideline and that's what I gave him. As for the semibluff he seemed unsure about what he heard. Everyone else was probably speaking a different language to him and I gave him what he ask for.
And to the poster, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you and talked down to you.....that was not my attention.
GL

[AKQJ10]

Well, I'm certainly open to constructive criticism. I'm fairly confident that the points I mentioned are important -- especially the last one. How do you think I could phrase them more clearly? I'd rather learn to express subtle concepts clearly (a la Ed Miller, for example) than suppress them and say, "Just gain experience and then you'll know."

Of course experience is important. However, in poker, of all pursuits, experience can be deceptive if not interpreted in the correct theoretical framework. (E.g. I called with overcards five times in a row and turned top pair, so I'm going to raise with overcards from now on because experience has taught me.)