Was this weak on turn/river or just cautious?

tor · #1 06-19-2005, 09:41 AM

UTG is TAG, and button is a super maniac, and I'm *very* sure about these reads.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 6 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, Button caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, Button bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.25 BB

kapw7 · #2 06-19-2005, 09:48 AM

UTG was TAG? Funny how he played his AA. I guess he was expecting the maniac to do the raising?

jrz1972 · #3 06-19-2005, 09:49 AM

I'm check-raising the turn, and calling down from there if UTG keeps raising. At that point I would no real choice but to put UTG on 55.

kapw7 · #4 06-19-2005, 09:56 AM

55 is possible. But do you think these 0.5/1 TAGs limp UTG with 55? I'm not sure what their SSHE bible recommends.

Fantam · #5 06-19-2005, 10:02 AM

I think that your calling down on the turn and river was prudent, given your confident reading of UTG as TAG.

I think UTG was most likely to have a set or 2 pair when he 3-bet the flop. I expect that he showed down 55 or possibly A5(s).

I think you were definitely correct to call to the river, as you could easily have still had the best hand. Also calling was probably better than betting IMHO, as this could have become expensive, if UTG then raised with the best hand.

jrz1972 · #6 06-19-2005, 10:06 AM

Limping with 55 makes a lot more sense than limping with AA or TT.

Regardless, you have to get pretty creative to come up with a hand to justify UTG's actions so far. His PF limp would seem to rule out AA, TT, or AJ+. 55 is possible, as is A5s. Even after he check-3-bets the flop, I'm strongly inclined to think we're ahead here and that UTG is getting super-aggressive because of the maniac. So I'd either lead off the turn or check-raise the turn and call down from there if necessary. If UTG has a set, I'm going to have to pay him off.

Fantam · #7 06-19-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
55 is possible. But do you think these 0.5/1 TAGs limp UTG with 55? I'm not sure what their SSHE bible recommends.

[/ QUOTE ]

The SSHE bible recommends limping from EP with all pocket pairs in a loose game (6 to 8 players usually seeing the flop), and limping with pocket pairs 77 and higher in a tight game (3 to 5 players on average to the flop).

It also recommends raising from EP with 99 or higher (loose game) and TT or higher (tight game).

You really should get a copy. The SSHE bible is good reading if poker is your religion. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Fishlips_Jones · #8 06-19-2005, 10:25 AM

I'm dubious to your preflop reraise. Everything else looks ok to me.

tor · #9 06-19-2005, 10:35 AM

It was meant as an isolation raise to knock out UTG. As he was playing tight, I was pretty sure he would fold.

What about it makes you uncomforatble?

kapw7 · #10 06-19-2005, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]

The SSHE bible recommends limping from EP with all pocket pairs in a loose game (6 to 8 players usually seeing the flop), and limping with pocket pairs 77 and higher in a tight game (3 to 5 players on average to the flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

I was right then. As most "TAGs" follow the tight game guidelines and with the maniac being there to make you pay 1 more bet, it makes 55 a bit less likely to limp PF.

[ QUOTE ]
You really should get a copy. The SSHE bible is good reading if poker is your religion. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course I have a copy. But it's a very much overrated book. Read TOP. This is the bible. And don't believe anyone saying that it doesn't apply to micros. It applies everywhere.