Overcards hand from the archive

[Jake (The Snake)]

I've been searching through the archives lately and this one came up. Playing overcards is still a problem for me, as it is for many posters. This is the kind of hand where I think the answer should be obvious to me, but isn't. And I suspect we might get a few different opinions.

Anyway, what do you do here and why? I'll post the responses from the archived thread if this turns out to be interesting at all.


Party 3/6 game. Dealt Ad Kd in the cutoff. EP calls, MP calls, I raise, SB folds, BB calls, limpers call. 4 to the Flop for 8.5sb.

Flop: 7c 4h 2d

SB checks, EP bets, MP calls, I...

[shant]

I raise here because of the [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the flop.

[Justin A]

I sometimes call and sometimes raise here. I'll basically never raise if my opponents aren't the type to just call and then check to me on the turn. I hate a raise if I'm going to get 3bet or they donkbet the turn even a relatively small percentage of the time.

[Argus]

I like a raise unless a free card is rare at this table.Since you are almost always holding two live cards and you have the backdoor flush you don't have to get a free card exceptionally often for this raise to be valuable. This flop is very ragged and as such you are unlikely to get 3-bet by typical party 3/6ers. I'd be surprised if the archives suggest anything but a raise; this seems almost textbook.

[Webster]

I first response is to raise. EP knows yo probebly have overcards and is testing you. I raise to test him back and then watch the turn carefully to see if that straight straight gets more noticable.

EP called early so HE probebly has overcards OR weak pockets.

I don;t want those guys to take charge adter I raised in,

Grinders Warehouse BLOG Edition

[JaysonWeberFCP]

Well there is 10.5 sb's in the pot, If we smooth call odds are SB will call most of the time... so that's 12.5 sb's going to the turn.

If we raise here, SB probobly isn't going to call, but you know the other 2 will call it 95% of the time, If not Raise so You're going to have atleast 14.5 SB's

We've got Backdoor Straight / Flush draws as well as 2 strongest overcards, so I'm counting 6ish outs here?

With that in mind we hit the turn with 7.25 BBs in the pot facing us instead of 6.25 is we smooth-call. But we're also getting the chance at at a free turn(as an above poster mentioned we can count that in here depending on the table).

Just because in this situation I think a free - turn is viable atleast 20% of the time I'd advocate Raising. Not sure if I am looking at it wrong?

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if I am looking at it wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to be implying that raising the flop will give you better odds to continue drawing to your hand on the turn. This is a very incorrect way to think.

[thejameser]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if I am looking at it wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to be implying that raising the flop will give you better odds to continue drawing to your hand on the turn. This is a very incorrect way to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

it seems a backwards way to think.

[jay1313]

I am going for the raise here because of the strength of the combined draws and taking the free card if necessary. Question is what to do if 3 bet. Unlikely, but I would call and see where the turn took us.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
it seems a backwards way to think.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm unclear whether you're saying that I'm thinking backwards or if you're suggesting that Jayson is thinking backwards?