10/20 KK against unknown

KaneKungFu123 · #1 06-13-2005, 09:06 AM

give thoughts on all streets...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) converter

SB ($4621.5)
BB ($2000)
UTG ($1893)
Hero ($2199)
Button ($1790)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
1 fold, Hero raises to $60, Button raises to $100, 2 folds, Hero raises to $200, Button calls $100.

Flop: ($430) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $130, Button raises to $260, Hero calls $130.

Turn: ($950) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $200, Hero calls $200.

River: ($1350) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $700, Button calls $1130 (All-In), Hero calls $430.

Final Pot: $3610

mgsimpleton · #2 06-13-2005, 09:23 AM

well i can't see him having AQ with the preflop action, so I would hate to see this flop, as now QQ and AA have you crushed... what do you put him on that you're beating? Maybe shorthanded JJ and TT play this way preflop, but I don't know that they'd get so crazy once this flop comes down.

I don't mind the bet/call the min-raise and see where it goes, but once he bets the turn, do you really think you are ahead here? You sort of have to make a decision at that point, because the pot is so big that no blocking bet on the river could be a reasonable size and really keep you from being pot committed when he raises...

So on the river, was the 700 a blocking bet, or do you think you are ahead, or what? Once again, I would have mucked it earlier, because now there's no real way to avoid paying all your chips to see it... maybe a check call/hope he doesn't go all in? I don't know, I just really think you're beat here, I might have given up on the turn.

KaneKungFu123 · #3 06-13-2005, 09:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
well i can't see him having AQ with the preflop action, so I would hate to see this flop, as now QQ and AA have you crushed... what do you put him on that you're beating? Maybe shorthanded JJ and TT play this way preflop, but I don't know that they'd get so crazy once this flop comes down.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly adding the possibility of AQ, KQ.

his turn bet is small and i thought it screamed weakness. i no longer had him anywhere near aa or qq. it itself looked like a blocking bet, if i reraised him here, it semed like he gets away from hands i beat and crushes me the times he is slowplaying. so i just call. if a scary card comes on the river, then id wait n see. if not, i'd bet out and get a call from AQ, KQ, JJ, TT.

Rococo · #4 06-13-2005, 10:35 AM

I am not wild about the reraise preflop (either the fact of it or the amount), but you know the risks and rewards of that approach.

This looks to me like a skittish player with AA. He bets small on the turn because he is afraid that you have QQ and he wants to get to showdown cheap. You bet big on the river and he isn't good enough to lay down AA even if he thinks he is beat.

So what to do . . . If my read is correct, this type of player may check behind on the river or make a small value bet. I check the river and call a small bet in case my read is off and he is fooling around with top pair, JJ, etc.

Garland · #5 06-13-2005, 09:52 PM

This has all the smells of being beaten by either AA or QQ. It would be nice to know more about villian.

If I were to reraise before the flop, I'd make it at least $250.

If villian called the pre-flop reraise of either $200 to $300. Then by the time the flop came, I'd be in "take one stab at it and quit" mode. It's almost a certainty that you were either already beaten preflop or you just got outflopped. Your only hope if your opponent is sane: he has JJ and folds the flop peacefully.

In my opinion, the if you were committed to the pot, you must be the stronger aggressor, hope he has AA or KK and convince him *you* flopped the set and make him fold, and I would only do that with a good read.

I don't like how it played out. What exactly does your small flop bet accomplish? It gives you next to zero information. He is apt to call equally with AK, AQ, JJ, QQ and possibly with AA and KK. The turn bet by villian either screams extreme weakness or strength. And if by some miracle, I still played it your way, I would make a smaller blocking bet and fold to the massive raise. No way I'm ahead now.

Garland

Alex/Mugaaz · #6 06-13-2005, 10:20 PM

I don't get why people re-raise high pp's unless you are raising a huge amount and there is a good amount in the pot, in which case you win big either way.
When someone does that they might as well say "Hey I have KK or AA, it's going to cost you $X to see if you can hit a set and take all my chips"

It's impossible to outplay anyone if they know with 98% certainty what you're holding.

KaneKungFu123 · #7 06-13-2005, 11:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If I were to reraise before the flop, I'd make it at least $250.

If villian called the pre-flop reraise of either $200 to $300. Then by the time the flop came, I'd be in "take one stab at it and quit" mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would I want to turn KK into a 'take a stab hand'?
Id rather make it $300 with 87s with this post flop strategy.

kagame · #8 06-14-2005, 12:33 PM

well done sir, not much of this sort of post around lately, felt like i was reading an archive lol

dead on

btw kane whats up with the river bet i dont see the point

luckOverSkill · #9 06-14-2005, 01:36 PM

I think you're beat bud. Villain's call preflop probably meant you were ahead at that point. But his raise on the flop and his weird bet on the turn is not a good sign...

P.S. I LOVE POKER. I AM A POKER WHORE.

creedofhubris · #10 06-14-2005, 01:49 PM

You're up against a minraising donkey.

Those guys have the goods.

You lose.

I think it's more likely he has AA than QQ.