Betting Out from the BB in a Small, Unraised Pot

Piiop · #1 06-09-2005, 12:33 AM

Here's a situation where I think I may not be aggressive enough. 1 or 2 limpers and no small blind, or 1 limper and the small blind, and you're in the BB with some marginal holding and get to see a free flop. How often are you betting out here?

Please share what you would do in this situation and what your plan for the hand is (like if you bet the flop and get 1 caller, do you fire again on the turn?). Also, include of the read on the player would make you change from one action to another.

Hand 1 - UTG+1 open limps. He's slightly loose and slightly passive, basically a call station but with some aggression. Never seen him to anything tricky.

Your hand: T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Hand 2 - UTG limps, button limps. UTG is VERY loose and aggressive. He likes to keep the lead in a hand, however when other players are aggressive postflop, he will back down. His hand is probably pretty poor to open limp, even UTG. Button is relatively unknown, he's only been at the table a short period of time and has done nothing notable.

Your hand: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hand 3 - UTG+2 open limps, SB completes. He is your basic calling station, rarely shows aggression not too loose both pre and post though. SB is also a garden-variety calling station.

Your hand: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hand 4 - UTG+1 open limps, SB completes. UTG+1 is slightly loose and aggressive. Not a bad player, but too aggressive in the wrong spots and plays a few too many hands. SB is super loose and super passive. We love the SB.

Your hand: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Thanks for taking the time to answer these. Feel free to post any other hands, ideas, thoughts, or questions about this situation.

Fnord · #2 06-09-2005, 12:45 AM

If I expect the limpers to call way too much, I only bet for value, otherwise I check fold. Their style of play earns them these pots.

If I just got weak/tighties with a pocket pair or something I might bet out to buy the pot. But this is rare.

In most Party 3/6, some 2/4 and just about all bigger games, the players are aggro enough post-flop that I'll check/raise if I plan on playing as the last player to act is often auto-betting the flop. I'm pretty sure I'm gettting better hands to fold sometimes with this line. Usually a turn continuation bet takes it down. Also, consider that risking the free card isn't a big deal in a small pot. If it's checked through and the turn sucks, I can just quietly check/fold.

eric5148 · #3 06-09-2005, 12:46 AM

1 - Bet. He might fold a better hand and he'll pay you off it the flush hits.

2 - Check/fold. This opponent won't fold, so no reason to semibluff with ISD.

3 - Bet. You could have as many as 11 outs. With opponents who will pay off.

4 - Yuck. Check/fold flop, if you get a free card, take a shot on turn.

Catt · #4 06-09-2005, 12:52 AM

FWIW:

Hand 1: I bet this most every time HU. A read becomes very important to my play on the turn: if he likes to peel the flop but will frequently fold the turn when he misses and doesn't have odds to call, I probably fire again on the turn. If he plays any ace from any position, I probably check the turn (assuming no [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]). If he will often see the river hoping to hit his pair, I'd check the turn (no [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) - but I would be inclined to bet again if I hit my T. In all cases, I am going to be very cautious on the turn if this guy is decent HU and/or he is prone to call the flop and raise the turn.

Hand 2: I am almost always checking this and letting UTG have his lead.

Hand 3: I assume SB checked to me. I mix it up / go back and forth on this. Table tempo, my image, etc. will dictate betting out or checking here very often for me.

Hand 4: I don't like my hand all that much and I check here. I am ready to give it up to UTG+1's expected bet acting last, too.

Fnord · #5 06-09-2005, 12:54 AM

1 - Check, consider a raise (depending on the action) but otherwise over-call. FWIW, I think betting here tables your hand against a better player.
2 - Check you might get a free card (particularly from 8x) and a semi-bluff will get defended against perfectly by the crowd
3 - Check and consider a call. Once again, they will defend against a bluff perfectly and I'm not comfortable going for the c/r here.
4 - Check/fold. I want position to play this one out.

Catt · #6 06-09-2005, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1 - Check, consider a raise (depending on the action) but otherwise over-call. FWIW, I think betting here tables your hand against a better player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I can't imagine a bet here being an obvious flush draw -- certainly within the range but nothing close to tabling one's hand. Of course you need to be betting out with more than strong draws HU against a strong player, and I'd bet out with a larger range of hands than a FD -- I'd also expect a much larger range than FD from a strong player if the roles were reversed.

Piiop · #7 06-09-2005, 01:32 AM

Eric,

Do you fire again on Hand 1 if the turn is a blank?

Piiop · #8 06-09-2005, 01:33 AM

Catt,

I like your analysis for Hand 1.

For 2, when you say "let UTG have his lead", do you mean you are check-calling, or check-folding?

Piiop · #9 06-09-2005, 01:39 AM

Fnord,

It may be true that a better player might be able to put my on a flush draw and play accordingly. However, this opponent definitely isn't a better player. I would think he would be hard pressed to call with hands like KQ, JT, and other broadway combos that I want him to fold.

What do you mean by "defend against a bluff perfectly". In this situation, I would think (if UTG+1 is aware at all), that he would be less likely to bluff/semi-bluff raise at all because he'd be raising into a calling station. If you mean that the SB will most likely be calling the flop and turn with a wide variety of hands, I would agree, but do you think it's worth it to have him occasionally fold? What would you do here with A8o? A6o? 77? What would you do if the SB was only slightly loose and somewhat aggressive?

Catt · #10 06-09-2005, 01:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Catt,

I like your analysis for Hand 1.

For 2, when you say "let UTG have his lead", do you mean you are check-calling, or check-folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost certainly check-calling (barring some SB funny business). I'm not overly thrilled with my hand, but the gutshot and BDFD (and pair outs!) is enough for me to peel against someone who will likely bet any 2 when checked to in last position on a paired flop. If he will never take an offered free card on the turn, I'd think more about check-folding.