Table is Too Good - limit holdem (Strategy reminder)

[ToolMan]

This has probably been written about before, but I just relearned an important lesson yesterday after suffering bad beat after bad beat.

If the table sees 6 or more people to the flop almost every hand, you are in a loose game. Especially when it gets raised and everybody routinely calls. (I've been playing higher limits and hadn't seen this in a while.)

The effect of this is that top pair, top kicker hands absolutely will not hold up. At the very least someone will have two pair and you should too to continue playing. If all you have is top pair, call one bet to the turn and see if you improve. If it's raised to you, throw it away. If the board is very uncoordinated, you might continue - but it have to be very spread open.

Play for straights and flushes. Top pair hands OK if you can drive people out with a raise from early position. Forget about raising in late position.

I knew this before, but it cost me a little money to relearn yesterday showing a friend how to play at smaller limits.

[xxxxx]

If you are sitting at a passive table where turn raises occur about as often as the cubs win the world series, then I concur that you should throw away even TPTK. If the raise comes from a maniac, I would call. It is also possible that the TPTK has value as a 5 out draw. If the board isn't coordinated.

[pzhon]

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This has probably been written about before, but I just relearned an important lesson yesterday after suffering bad beat after bad beat.

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I don't think you picked up the right lesson.

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If the table sees 6 or more people to the flop almost every hand, you are in a loose game. ...
The effect of this is that top pair, top kicker hands absolutely will not hold up.


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Wrong. I see TPTK and worse win frequently in loose games. Of course, it loses a lot, too.

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At the very least someone will have two pair and you should too to continue playing.


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Wrong again. If you only put 1/6 of the money in, you should be happy winning anything more than 1/6 of the time. Sometimes you will be far ahead, and sometimes you will be behind but will have a lot of outs.

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If all you have is top pair, call one bet to the turn and see if you improve.


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Wrong. You should often raise to knock out the players with weak draws to hands that beat you.

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Play for straights and flushes. Top pair hands OK if you can drive people out with a raise from early position. Forget about raising in late position.

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Of course straights and flushes gain value in multi-way pots, but high pairs still win enough to make raising for value right by a huge amount, not only with QQ but also AQ.

It sounds like you had a bad session, but that one-pair hands lost a few times in a row for you does not mean they are not worth playing strongly.

[jdock99]

I play in a 25/50 game that is like this all the time, except that it is aggressive, unlike most low limit games like this. You just play your normal game and ride the rushes. It seems when I play a normal session (4-6 hours)most of the time I get outdrawn and lose somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 to $1000. However, occasionally I will have a long session when my TPTK and overpairs hold up and I will win $2000 to $4000.

[kpux]

This is wrong and dumb. Hands like AK and AQ have a huge pot equity edge preflop in loose games, and routinely hold up and win big pots with just TPTK.

[Ryan11]

A lot of the time you will have a lot of the loose fish dominated, they'll be playing weak aces and whatnot and when you hit your TPTK then they will often pay you off with a weaker ace.

Just have to be careful when a passive fish raises the turn when a blank falls and there is an A on the board, usually means he hit his shitty kicker.

[troy5168]

Please, Please, I'm begging you! Come sit in on some of my games. If you think TPTK is no good and that the way to riches and glory is CHASING STR8'S AND FLUSHES I have a seat reserved for you 24/7! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I love a table that has 6+ plus seeing the flop while I play a tight aggressive game, I'm almost garaunteed a profit!



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This has probably been written about before, but I just relearned an important lesson yesterday after suffering bad beat after bad beat.

If the table sees 6 or more people to the flop almost every hand, you are in a loose game. Especially when it gets raised and everybody routinely calls. (I've been playing higher limits and hadn't seen this in a while.)

The effect of this is that top pair, top kicker hands absolutely will not hold up. At the very least someone will have two pair and you should too to continue playing. If all you have is top pair, call one bet to the turn and see if you improve. If it's raised to you, throw it away. If the board is very uncoordinated, you might continue - but it have to be very spread open.

Play for straights and flushes. Top pair hands OK if you can drive people out with a raise from early position. Forget about raising in late position.

I knew this before, but it cost me a little money to relearn yesterday showing a friend how to play at smaller limits.

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[chson]

Ignore the absurd comments by the overconfident, inexperienced fish. Your advice is perfectly sound for these loose games. Thanks for sharing.

[Quercus]

Good coverage of this topic may be found in the tight/loose games section of TOP.

OP is correct that single pairs must be devalued in loose games, though he overstates his case.

[troy5168]

over confident and inexperienced? I think not butt boy. And last I checked fish don't make a profit like I have over the long run of course. But you guys keep playing that crap and please pull up chair, your money fits in my wallet just as well as anyone elses! LOL When you are in a loose game and then you start playing loosly too, you have gained NOTHING! But please, continue playing the way you do. I'll thank you when I'm spending your dough on vacation. have a great day!