Struggling through SSH

[Noobee]

Ok I'm lost.
Pg 104 Redraws.

We came out of left field with this term. It is not explained( or at least not clearly to me ) what the heck it is, nor is this term in the Glossary.

I read this section, then I reread it, Then I sat there wondering what the heck I just read.

Maybe I'm just thick here ( actually I'm quite confident I am thick) but can someone please break this concept down Barney Style perhaps starting with a definition?

Thanx

PS: on a side note, might I suggest appending this to the glossary in some future printing/release/addition assuming this is even possible. I don't know much about book publishing.

[KeyToTheMint]

You make what your hoping for, but your opponent is still
drawing live to beat you. Example

You: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Opponent A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Flop 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Turn 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You made a flush and overtook your opponents hand. However
he can still drawout on you (redraw) on the river with any
club to beat your hand.

[Jordan Olsommer]

A redraw is the chance that, when you hit one of your outs and draw out on someone, that basically they then suck out on your suckout on the next card.

For example, if you have 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and your opponent has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and there are two clubs on board, you have eight outs to make your flush, but if you do, your opponent then has a redraw of seven outs to make an ace-high flush to beat your flush.

[Jordan Olsommer]

hah! sorry, didn't see your post when I posted my own.

And we both used baby club flushes, too. Eerie. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Noobee]

So a redraw is when your oponant has a chance to outdraw your completed speculative hand?

Am I following this?

[Jordan Olsommer]

Exactly - you're drawing to a hand, you hit your hand, but now because you hit your hand, your opponent has a draw to a better hand.

[Supern]

Redraw example:

You: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Opp: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Now you have the nut flush but your opponent has a redraw to the straight flush.
So if river is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] you are in trouble.

You better not be playing NL with a deep stack when this occurs. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
Redraw example:

You: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Opp: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Now you have the nut flush but your opponent has a redraw to the straight flush.
So if river is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] you are in trouble.

You better not be playing NL with a deep stack when this occurs. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats kind of an extreme version redraw to one out. Im not to worried about that one happening more than one in 45 times.

Either way, its a simple concept. You make your hand, but your out, gives an opponent a draw (what is called a re-draw) to a hand better than yours.

Simple stuff.

I always thought discounting your outs to the right number of partial outs was much harder. Like overcards, do u discount them to 4, 3, 2, 1.5 outs...depends on the situation, but I think that was harder for me to grasp intially.

[Supern]

A redraw hasn't anything to do with if the turn card made the redraw possible or not. At least not the concept.

For example:
Drawing to a straight on a 2-suited flop isn't as good as doing it on a rainbow flop. If you hit your straight with a blank suit you still have the flush chasers with you to the river and they may hit. So you are drawing to a hand that might not win even if you hit it and get the nuts on the turn.

If the flop is rainbow and the turn is a suit from the flop it isn't as likely that someone with 2 cards of that suit is still in the hand because he only had a longshot on the flop.

[Supern]

Haha. I made an extreme example just for the fun of it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Talking about strange chapters, let's talk about hidden outs. That's a hard one to apply. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]