Too fancy on 4th street?

[Mathieu]

I think I probably misplayed this hand on 4th street. I think I am due for re-reading SSH again.

Villain is LP. (Maybe shouldn't have steal raised in the first place..)

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

I am betting this flop with the intention of taking a free card on 4th street if I don't improve.

Turn: (3.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Here I start playing scared, and decide to follow the "check hands with outs and bet hands with no outs on 4th street" from HPFAP. I don't think it applies much in this case.

River: (3.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

BB bets.

This is about the worst card in the deck for me. I can only beat a donk bet that I don't think my opponent would make in this spot. I am getting about 4-1 that my opponent is making that "bluff". I guess I should still call given the way I played the turn.

I am trying to determine if betting the turn was the best play, and against what kind of opponent if any, would checking this turn be a better play?

Also, had I bet the turn, should I still call this river bet (getting ~ 6-1)? I usually don't fold much on the river for one bet, but this board is so ugly and my opponent is passive.

Thanks!

[aK13]

Bet the turn.

Fold the river -- any K has you beat, and he could have just caught his runner runner straight, and the pot isn't that big.

[Mathieu]

The more I think about it, the harder it is to believe I missed that turn bet.

My opponnent is loose enough to call me down with a lot of weaker hands, so value betting the turn should be profitable enough when I'm ahead, (which should be the case the majority of the time here)to compensate for the times when I get check-raised. Does this makes sense?

Why are you betting this flop? The board is paired and it's two suited. Your straight draw is devalued considerably. You are essentially drawing to 4 outs and even if you hit your straight it might not be good as a KK or KT slowplay is a very real possibilty. These are both plausible blind defending hands. Easy check for free card on the flop. If you hit the straight on the turn then you can make crying calls to the river if he bets out, but only if the straight is made with a non-heart A or 9. If you hit on the turn and he checks to you then you might have to bet to prevent a possible free card for his flush draw. If a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hits the river fold to any bet or check behind.

[Mathieu]

AH! I was expecting that! I read some of your posts, which cracked me up. I do admit that I played that one in a weak tight manner (I never read WLLH). I should probably reread some posts by Ed Miller. That should help me not forget that I have cojones when I'm on 4th street!

[Webster]

There is no way I play this hand after the flop. Do you REALLY want to get into a pissing match with a paired board?? Even if you hit your straight - will it win?

Come on - pick your battles. The hand looked good pre flop but a loser once that board pairs and a K hits. Your asking for trouble. If you bvet - nobody will believe you. If you check you are a weak kitten.

give this hand up.


Grinders Warehouse BLOG Edition

[PokerBob]

HU I think you can bet the turn as you have some folding equity and a c/r isn't the end of the world as you have many outs. So many players like to "peel" on the flop and then fold the turn. Charge them to see the river.