I'm normally pretty good about my river value bets...

mdeck · #1 06-01-2005, 05:54 PM

I don't have numbers on villain, but he loves to raise any two suited.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $2.
2 folds, UTG+2 (poster) checks, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB raises, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 calls, Button folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (14.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks...

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

My checkraise is screaming "FLUSH! FLUSH! I GOT MY FLUSH!!" so when he 3-bets me the alarm bells go off.

Do you cap the turn and lead the river, to call a raise, or is check/calling the river the right line.

I don't want to put 2 bets in with that river especially after his aggression. Is that too weak/tight?

nuggetz87 · #2 06-01-2005, 06:06 PM

First, I don't even know why you completed with T4s, I'd just toss it, especially if the bb is that likely to raise.

I think this play totally depends on your read on the guy. Raise if he's too loose, call and then check/call if you think he's got it. I wouldn't even think about folding the flush against a guy you describe as pretty crazy.

I play 2/4 on party as well. The thing that helps me with these types of decisions is pokertracker/gametime+. If you don't have them, get them. PT costs $55, but will pay for itself very quickly, assuming you play a lot. In this decision I'd just take into account his VPIP and postflop AF. If you've played a few hands with him, it should be easy.

mdeck · #3 06-01-2005, 06:16 PM

I completed because I was getting 10:1, and even if he raised I'd be almost getting 7:1.

I used PT/PV til I got home - My laptop's hard drive died, so I'm using a home PC to play currently - I'm holding off on installing PT on this PC, since I'm buying a new one (in fact ordered parts yesterday), and would like to keep PT on my laptop as well. Since you only get two PT registrations per purchase, I'm refraining from installing it on this one. It's unfortunate and I know it's affecting my winrate, but simulatneously the past couple weeks have been good, because I've conditioned myself to rely a lot less on PT numbers and more on previous reads. I've taken an insane amount of player notes the past couple weeks, and I think that playing a bit without PT/PV has helped me to be more attentive at the table...though I'll probably go back to it once I get my laptop back.

brettbrettr · #4 06-01-2005, 06:18 PM

Pre-flop is fine. I wouldn't c/r the flop b/c you risk having someone fold to BB's reraise. Turn looks good, call the river.

meep_42 · #5 06-01-2005, 06:20 PM

I cap the turn and clarkmeister the river.

[edit - oh yeah, when you lose almost all your customers on the flop, just call to close the action.]

-d

Argus · #6 06-01-2005, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I cap the turn and clarkmeister the river.

[edit - oh yeah, when you lose almost all your customers on the flop, just call to close the action.]

-d

[/ QUOTE ]
This is bang on advice. His 3-bet isn't that scary to you (you have a flush) and you should be more willing to put in another raise when it caps the betting.

ThisHo · #7 06-01-2005, 07:48 PM

haven't read any of the posts as I want to take a stab at this. Ignore if already been said.

hero c/r the flop and c/r the turn does not scream "I hit my flush" to everyone. I think that it could easily be "I like to fancy play my TPTK" to some or "I've got a set, no seriously, I've got a set" to others. Neither of these c/r scared the villain though so I don't think that he thinks you've got a big hand OR he thinks he's got a bigger one. Given his aggression on all streets I put him on AA / KK / QQ or AK and he's a maniac. If I had to pick I'd say QQ, he hit is set and isn't afraid of anything. The problem with the Jd on the river is that if he is playing an overpair that strongly then he may have hit his 1 card flush. You're going to have to pay him off if he did, even if its for 2 bets.

I personally like the check/call on the river.

Now I shall read to find out where I'm wrong!

ThisHo

ThisHo · #8 06-01-2005, 07:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I cap the turn and clarkmeister the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what "clarkmeister the river" means (call me NuB), I know that clarkmeister is a great poster but I didn't know he had a patented river play... I'll dig to try and figure it out, but that's not the point...

I was so focused on the river that I missed the cap the turn play. Very nice.

ThisHO

Argus · #9 06-01-2005, 07:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I cap the turn and clarkmeister the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what "clarkmeister the river" means (call me NuB), I know that clarkmeister is a great poster but I didn't know he had a patented river play... I'll dig to try and figure it out, but that's not the point...

I was so focused on the river that I missed the cap the turn play. Very nice.

ThisHO

[/ QUOTE ]
Here, I searched for you. He's not kidding when he says 100% of the time.

SomethingClever · #10 06-01-2005, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First, I don't even know why you completed with T4s, I'd just toss it, especially if the bb is that likely to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very bad advice.

Also, cap the turn, lead the river and call a raise.