How do you maximize profits playing with fish?

bob2007 · #1 12-22-2002, 10:22 PM

I've played enough poker lately to recognize typical fish.
i.e. players calling with bottom pair, no pairs, random 2 handed cards called preflop.

But there were 5 players that called and fold at the river if they didn't improve. They were going for backdoor flushes, backdoor inside straight draws, inside straight draws, and of course, the typical draw to 2 pairs with bottom pair / mid pair.

I got busted with my kk/AA enough times today for it to be a serious problem. In the end I still end up with profit playing tight, and reraising, but I think I should do better playing with major fish like these guys. No matter how much betting I did, it didn't matter, they wouldn't fold until the river. They seemed to suck out on my typically 2/3 times I go to showdown. The weirdest thing was that they didn't seem to lose too much money and win too many times.

So far my only strategy has been to bet out my hands regardless of them drawing or not, and folding to their reraise. Also, a tight preflop game nothing under j, except for pairs 7 +.

PokerBabe(aka) · #2 12-22-2002, 10:33 PM

Bluff less and value bet more with these guys. Although it's frustrating to have a school of fish following you, eventually they will catch the bait and you have them hooked [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Good luck., Babe.

ResidentParanoid · #3 12-22-2002, 10:35 PM

Play typical loose LL style: Kxs and Axs and pocket pairs and are nice hands in any position if little raising pre-flop. Medium suited connectors and larger are often playable. Top pair is nice, but doesn't win as much as you expect. Bet your good hands. And on a day when you don't make many sets, straights or flushes, you won't win much. Don't bluff much if any against the loosies. You'll usually have odds to draw to your good hands.

bob2007 · #4 12-22-2002, 10:35 PM

Ya, I pretty much never bluff cause they always call.

bdypdx · #5 12-22-2002, 11:58 PM

I totally agree with ResidentParanoid's advice...

Friday night I was at a table with Mr. "Kingfish". Mr Kingfish played ANY 2 cards. He won all night!

In one hand I had TT on the button. Kingfish limped in MP, I raised and Kingfish called. Flop was 924 rainbow. Kingfish checks, I bet and he called of course. Turn x?. He checks, I bet, he called. River K. He checks, I bet, he called and showed K8 offsuit. Whadda ya do? He's got 2 cards, they're good to the river.

I watched another hand where Kingfish in MP showed 83 offsuit on the River, giving him a full house, to a tight-aggressive player in the CO who was working with trip K's on the flop. There was a 3 in the flop (Kingfish even re-raised), a 8 on the turn and another 3 on the river. The comment by the tight-aggressive player was "You'll pay me back later!

Mr Kingfish eventually left the table after causing much frustration. For whatever reason or lack of it, he walked away with many chips. You just have to shrug it off.

I personally had a very good night. I must admit that watching Kingfish was something to behold...

Pat · #6 12-23-2002, 12:11 AM

If that guy had trip K's on the flop, then the second 3 would have given his K's over 3's for the win. ...Just a thought.

Anyway, I sort of disagree with the past couple of statements. I've played in LLs for quite awhile now and have shown a very significant profit.

I think it was one of Sklansky's books that says that against loose opponents, you should play tight, and against tight opponents you should play loose. This is the strategy that I've gone by.

If these "fish" are really going to call anything, then why play Kx, Ax, etc.? Why not wait until you get quality hands that will win significantly more than the weaker hands that your opponent will play? Keep playing tight and waiting for your good hands, and the money will continously come in.

Hope this helped,
Pat

bdypdx · #7 12-23-2002, 12:41 AM

You're right. I wasn't careful with my recollection. My bad.

The point is that aggressively bet pocket K's failed to hold up to 83 offsuit which turned into a full house on the river. It took the flop, turn and river for the full house to develop. The Kingfish called all the way and even re-raised his 3's on the flop.

Dynasty · #8 12-23-2002, 12:49 AM

a tight preflop game nothing under j, except for pairs 7 +.

This sounds like a horrible pre-flop strategy. Why are you folding 66-22 and suited connectors?

bernie · #9 12-23-2002, 01:45 AM

to read past pg 150 in HPFAP...many seem to miss this section. this section alone has garnered me many more chips than just playing these players in standard fashion...

check it out...learn to extract and save

b

bernie · #10 12-23-2002, 01:53 AM

"Why not wait until you get quality hands that will win significantly more than the weaker hands that your opponent will play? Keep playing tight and waiting for your good hands, and the money will continously come in"

this is all fine and dandy as long as they dont figure out that youre only playing good cards. and even the biggest fish can see that eventually...then...once you get the 'nut' player lable, youll find your action isnt that great when you finally get into a hand to play...yep, it happens...happened to me...

if its a passive table, you canplay many more hands...the money you make is how you play them post flop...by not chasing where they would chase, and maximizing where they wouldnt bet when they should....on these tables...Axs and Kxs are fine to play...

just playing tight on these tables, youre missing out on more chips that you could be getting....against bad players, you want to be in more hands if you can...and with passive bad players, its almost an open door...

b