pushing the envelope

[stripsqueez]

$50+$5 - i get some good hands against chooky opponents and get KhKc on the button with T4200 - 2 feeble stacks fold - the next guys have about T1900 each - the blinds are 150/300

the last T1200 or so of my stack has come from winning without a flop in the last 7-8 hands

i limp and they complete/check

flop is Ah 8h 5h - SB pushes and i fold

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[NYCNative]

Push preflop.

[Unarmed]

Strip, I get tempted to do this as well, but then I remember that its really not a bad thing to push with legit hands sometimes. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] 450 in chips is nothing to scoff at, just rake em in and show your KK if you like.

[stripsqueez]

i was hoping for more than 2 replies telling me i did bad - perhaps its so obvious i did bad that those reading this post dont feel the need to tell me

i well understand that its good to have a legit hand when you push in spots like this - all that prior pushing with garbage is the perfect cover - in this spot my opponents had an additional reason to fold though which was that they had an excellent chance of getting in to the money without playing a further hand

i didnt particularly need to get a monster starting hand at this stage - the T450 in blinds was going to add little to my prospects of winning or getting into the money - the biggest result for me was to knock out one of the decent stacks because then my chances of winning or coming second would improve considerably

my choice to open limp on the button was driven by this thought - take a bigger risk by limping but shoot for the bigger reward - nothing new about slowplaying big pairs to induce action - often the realm of the chook

by limping i give the blinds a chance to see a flop and perhaps do some catching up on my KK - clearly a plan fraught with danger - if it ended up that i doubled up one of those stacks by taking that additional risk my prospects would be hurt significantly but its still very likely i would make the money and i was still a good chance of a first or second finish

i suppose this play is also open to the criticism that it should be obvious to my opponents given all my prior pushing that i probably held a monster - that is plainly right if my opponents are good enough to think about it - i frankly doubt that they were - in any event if the thought occured to them i doubt they could resist investing too many chips when they flopped top pair

as for the post flop there is a good argument for me to call the push - i have the best flush draw and may of even been in front - i folded because my position was so strong (i was looking forward to further pushing around the bigger stacks whilst the small stacks survived) that i figured it simply wasnt a risk worth taking albeit that i probably had a positive expectation to win chips by calling

if i get lucky someone will perhaps endeavour to explain to me why this plan which i still like is crap

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[MentalCombat]

IMHO, the real benifit in pushing here isnt the extra 450 chips you have, its the 450 fewer chips that your villians have.

[Gramps]

If you're playing against weak opponents who will let you continue to steal, I'd fold my 2nd pair/nut flush draw as well and protect my chip gap, even if it's +EV chip-wise given your pot odds (vs. villan's suspected holdings).

I'd only limp if I felt my opponents were capable of some (over)aggression/I'd limped before. Otherwise, your limp says "I have AA or KK, please push on me" and you're just giving free cards for the other players to catch up with you. If it's folded and you win the blinds, oh well, you're 450 richer and they're 450 poorer.