Frustrated with negative BB/100

ProsperousOne · #1 05-30-2005, 12:53 PM

I can't tell you how frustrated I've became with my game...
Since I read SSH and started applying pot odds and implied odds, well, my game (profit) has gone to hell...

I'm hoping it's just variance and bad beats, but maybe I'm misplaying. My account went from $100 to $100 in a few weeks, then after reading SSH it went to -$100 in a few days... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Here's a classic example... Did I do anyting wrong?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (17.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kd Ks (two pair, kings and fives).
MP1 has Qd Qs (full house, queens full of fives).
Outcome: MP1 wins 21.50 BB. 

I'm thinking that I'm not TOO agressive and raising when I should be either just calling or folding... totally contrary to the posts I've read by Ed about folding too often... My thought on the flop was to protect my hand and that's why I re-raised. Should I have only called the turn and river?

My stats are all with in the norms BTW... (VIPI 18/etc) and I've got 5500 hands at the .5/1 level (about 15K including 2/4, which i've dropped out of until my bankroll recovers).

Friggin' ironc... as I'm typing this post, I get another of my classic beats:
(Table has a VP$IP of 42)
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 (poster) calls, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, BB calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Th 9h (two pair, tens and nines).
Hero has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
MP1 has Kd 9c (one pair, nines).
Outcome: BB wins 10.75 BB. 

So after 2 hands, am I just in a month long string of bad beats? I read on this forum that PP has extremenly high variance due to the crap that people call and catch...

Great forum... I'm hoping to be a "pro" here soon... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) Thx in advance for the help.

MDO67 · #2 05-30-2005, 01:01 PM

I am having the same problems. Now I am reading (for the second time) and learning the post flop chapter of SSH.

Yesterday, I dropped down from Party .50/1 to Stars .25/.50 and saw a huge difference in my BB/100. It was noticeably easier and I plan to stay there for awhile.

You can have the replies e-mailed to you. Go in the "My Home" section and look at the various options.

- Mark

Isura · #3 05-30-2005, 01:05 PM

You played both hands fine.
BTW, MP made a huge mistake by not raising the turn in hand 1.

Reqtech · #4 05-30-2005, 01:12 PM

Both of those hands look fine to me. Be grateful that MP1 on the first hand was weak tight on turn and saved you a big bet or 3 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

adsman · #5 05-30-2005, 01:12 PM

What do you want? Play against good players? Be thankful that these players are crap. In hand 1 if MP1 was any good at all he would have 3 bet preflop and you would have capped. He should also have raised the turn. So thanks to a bad player you lost less than you should have.

Hand 2, mark him down as your favourite player - the calling station. Sometimes these players suck out, but for the most part they call you down when you have TPTK and pay you off. The times that they pay you off more than make up for the occassional times that they suck out. In fact both these players are terrible. If you don't like them, send me their handles. I'll gladly play with them while I write, 'nh' when they suck out on me.

Just because you've read a good book doesn't mean you're going to be an instant winner. One of the great things about this forum is that after a while you realise that EVERYONE has downswings, even the best players. I'm in the midst of a 170BB downswing over 5000 hands, and I'm not worried at all. To tell you the truth, I'm kind of interested to see how long it will go on for. This positive attitude I can only attribute to this forum.

Poker is a results-based game but that is the trap. If you focus on the results then your game will be undermined as you will start doing silly things like setting stop-loss targets, stopping when you're ahead, keeping playing in a session when you're behind to 'get even', checking your cashier box every time you win or lose a big pot, etc etc.

Play your game well, study hard, respond to posts more than posting hands yourself, stop a session when you're yelling at your computer, make a buddy list and follow them around, (those 2 players in the second hand are prime candidates,) and remember above all else;

If the bad players didn't occasionaly win, then they wouldn't play. When bad players suck out on you, they're just minding your money until you get a chance to get it back.

Disconnected · #6 05-30-2005, 01:14 PM

Well, your downswing could be variance, you're not dealing with a long timeframe. You don't say how long in general you've been playing or anything, but you may be making mistakes, especially if you're making changes to your game (whether from applying SSHE or any other reason you're changing) -- whenever you change a major variable in your game, whether it's poker or anything else, there's a learning curve.

That said, I'm not sure where pot odds or implied odds came into play on your posts. In general, is there something in SSHE that you don't agree with, and that by following you think you're losing with?

On the first hand, I would have slowed down on the turn. If you want to look to something in SSHE, look at the flop evaluation. You've got an overpair on a moderately coordinated board with many opponents. You have a strong hand -- likely the best at the moment, but if there are a lot of players, your overpair isn't likely to win UI. When you're raised on the flop, you should probably slow down somewhat. The 3-bet is OK, since it gives you a chance to have 2 players face 2 bets cold, but I don't know about leading the turn, especially after the 3rd card to the straight comes in. Be thankful MP1 didn't raise you more on this hand.

On the second hand, yeah it's a bad beat, but think of the number of times his card doesn't come in, and he's still calling you down and paying you off. You want opponents like that. Would you have played this hand any differently before reading SSHE?

Finally, yeah, you can be notified of a reply to a thread. You have to mark the thread as a favorite (toggle at the bottom of the thread), and in your preferences there's an option to be notified when a favorite thread is replied to.

Hang in there, reply to some hands that are posted here, and pay attention to this forum -- there are some great responses (much better than mine).

ProsperousOne · #7 05-30-2005, 01:24 PM

thanks for all the QUICK great responses.... you're confirming that I'm just in a down swing, and I will tighten up a hair after agressiveness displayed when I dont' have the nuts...

thx again.