KK hand - comments please

[joedot]

UTG folds. I'm next to act and raise with K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] SB and BB call.

Flop 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

SB checks. BB bets $1. I call. SB calls $1.

Turn (board: 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks. BB bets $2. I raise
$4. SB calls $4. BB calls $2.

River (board: 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets $2. BB calls $2. I call $2.

Love your comments. Results to follow

[johnb]

I'm guessing you got run down by two pair, trips or a flush. I would have raised the flop. I understand the arguement for waiting until the turn but any one pair hand is vunerable and i would want to put as much pressure on the blinds as possible.

[JAA]

Hey joe....

I would definitely raise the flop here. People are going to be inclined to call you with mediocre holdings such as gutshots, overcards, three flushes, etc. and when I'm in your position I want them playing the max to see if they can pick up their draw. After the turn comes, they will know whether or not they can keep calling (aka did they pick up a four flush or a high pair), so making them call 2 bets on the flop is the best way to punish them for chasing without proper odds.

- JAA

[joedot]

SB had A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] for the flush. BB had Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]. don't know if my raise on the flop would have got the guy out with aq backdoor, but not knowing might be the problem. Maybe it would have got him out, so it could have been a mistake. Very frustrating.

[riffraff]

Sounds like raising the flop would have won you this hand for sure. Remember that a bet-sized mistake isn't that bad. It's the pot-sized mistakes that are the ones that hurt the most. You'll know what to do next time!

[Dynasty]

There's nothing wrong with just calling on the flop here although it's better to do it with AA. A key factor in just calling on the flop is being certain that your opponent will bet into you again on the turn. Also, you should be making this play on in small pots like in this hand.

When you are ahead, your opponents are almost always going to be drawing very slim. Any opponent calling with a gut-shot or a backdoor flush draw and Ace overcard is making a mistake by calling one small bet.

You should not feel that you lost the pot by not raising the flop. That would be allowing the results of this specfic hand to influence your thinking. I think you maximized your EV by the way you played the hand.

[riffraff]

I'd want to get the gutters/backdoors out myself. If the flop was 338 I'd be more inclined to wait until the turn for the raise.

[JAA]

Wow this is the 2nd time this week I've disagreed with Dynasty!!! I don't recall it ever having happened before...

Yep the draws are making a mistake by calling one bet, so amplify their mistakes all the more by charging them twice as much...Rather than making the "pay" after they see the turn and know whether or not they should continue drawing.

- JAA

[Stu Pidasso]

You played it well, and you have nothing to be frustrated about. I usually play this a little differently. Heres how I read the situation. When the big blind bets into you after you raised preflop you can pretty much rule out that he held trips. If he had trips, he can and most likely would have check raised your "mandatory" flop bet, or check raised you on the turn when you fire your second barrel. He either is bluffing outright, has an overpair, or snagged a small piece of this flop. He wants to take the pot now and not go to the river. When the BB bets out on the flop, I usually raise almost every time. If the sb calls two bets cold, or If I am reraised by either the SB or the BB, I am nearly always beat against typical opponents and against some opponents I know I am beat. The times I save money by figuring out I am beat early in a hand, makes up for money I did not extract when I was ahead and raised on a latter more expensive street.

If I am holding Aces, I might just call the BB, as I do not have to worry much about overcards. If the SB folds, I will pop the BB with a raise on the river, not the turn(unless the final board is scary). If the BB is running a bluff, he may fold to your turn raise. Let him bet into you on the river and pop him with a raise then. By holding off, you get an extra bet out of him that you might not have gotten otherwise.

Stu

[Dynasty]

Why do you want hands which are 10.75:1 and 23:1 to fold on the flop when there are only 6 small bets in the pot pre-flop?