Playing Overcards

[waynethetrain]

Here's a problem I get myself into at least once or twice per session.

Let's assume I am playing AK/AQ/AJ.

I raise pre-flop and get either 1 or 2 callers.

The flop is relatively raggy. I take a stab at the pot. I get called by 1 opponent.

The turn is another rag. I take another stab at the pot. He calls.

The river is no help.

Here's the question.

If I have position and it's checked to me, I can just check behind on the assumption that my opponent probably has been calling me down with a small pair of some sort. Right?

If I don't have position and I check, I am announcing to him that I probably only have 2 overcards. So he will often bet if he has a pair and I will generally fold. However, occasionally, given that I am advertising that I only have overcards, he may actually be taking a stab at the pot with a busted draw knowing that I will fold overcards. That's a potential problem.

I really have no idea whether folding to that river bet is correct or whether actually taking another stab at the pot on the river is correct (or something else)!

I find myself in this predicament so often (both in and out of position) that I'm not sure how to play it anymore.

All I know is that I am losing money playing overcards when I don't hit the flop even when it's heads up or against 2 opponents on somewhat raggy flops. I lose more on the occasions that I get called on the flop and turn than I win when they fold immediately.

There has to be a reasonable line of play here, but I can't find it.

Perhaps I'm not putting enough weight on the probablity my opponent will call down with a weak pair, but many people will call down and I usually don't have a good enough read anyway.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Creole]

I run into the same exact problem when faced with AK or other overcard hands. I tend to represent the big hand preflop and on the flop, but if the flop is rags and have 1 or 2 calling what is the turn play? Do you continue betting or just check to see where that small pair is then raise or just wait for river play? I hope we get some opinions on this play because I think it would help alot of people out.

-Chris

[waynethetrain]

Exactly!

You could back off on the turn if the flop bet doesn't get then to fold. However, there are players that will call the flop for a single SB but fold for a BB. That's why I have generally fired 1 more shot at the pot on the turn.

No matter how you slice it, when you raise pre-flop most players know that it is more likely you have overcards than a big pair. Then when the flop is raggy, they know that you still probably have just overcards. So they are willing to call down with a small pair (unless maybe an A hits).

When you are out of position, you can really get screwed if you check the river and he bets.

[Me and You]

As a beginner I am not sure but how about trying a check raise on the turn. Could get them to fold.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

In the situation you describe, bet the river. If he folds 15% of the time you make money. Not only that, but now you'll more likely get called when you have an overpair to the board.

One thing to keep in mind with overcards is that when you miss the flop in position, that's often the best time to back off when the board isn't total rags.

[Guthrie]

[ QUOTE ]
No matter how you slice it, when you raise pre-flop most players know that it is more likely you have overcards than a big pair. Then when the flop is raggy, they know that you still probably have just overcards. So they are willing to call down with a small pair (unless maybe an A hits).

[/ QUOTE ]
How do they know this?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If the range of hands a typical player will raise from EP is AA-99, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, 64% of the time, the raiser does not have a pair.

[allintuit]

This is not the truth for many low limit games, where people will raise with 97s and J10o, so in those types of games, I would be more inclined to bet the river.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Of course, the looser the raiser is, the less likely it is that he has a pair.

[ToolMan]

I agree. You are investing one more bet, so most times it is worth it to win the whole pot. Many opponents will fold more than 15% of the time. (3 people in pot preflop = 6 small bets/3 big bets; 2 people on flop = 2 small bets/1big bet; and 2 big bets on the turn = a pot with 6 big bets. You only have to win one time in 7 to be even. You will win more than that I believe.

Track your results for a few sessions. Finally, pay attention during those sessions to your opponents. If one or two will always call down no matter what you will want to pay more attention to the board to see if there is a possible missed draw on the board, in which case I would bet into them even if they do always call.