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#1
05-27-2005, 09:32 AM
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BB question, heads-up with limping SB
Say you are the BB and have 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or some such hand. It is folded around the table and SB only completes and you check.
Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] SB checks, you bet, SB calls. Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] SB bets, ... What kind of read on SB do you want to fold, call down or raise? Assume you have been sitting the table for a while and have been running about even. Any difference if you have been running good or bad? 
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#3
05-27-2005, 10:49 AM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
Unless the SB is the kind of complete donk who never checkraises or a solid thinking player will I consider calling this down, but I raise this a good bit. If for some reason you believe you are behind you can raise the turn and check the river behind. But my general line against these donkbets is to raise the turn and bet a relatively safe river.
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#4
05-27-2005, 11:38 AM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
I've been pondering something lately that relates to your hand: why did you not raise pf?
What kind of hands should you raise after a SB open-complete? Is it profitable to raise nearly anything, since you'll then have initiative and position on a weak player/weak hand? I've thought about experimenting with raising nearly everything. Its nice to raise something like T3s against a SB open-complete and have him check-fold an Axx flop, but is this spewing? How low should you go with your raising standards? FWIW I think I'd raise this pf.
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#5
05-27-2005, 01:38 PM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
Why would you raise? You're only going to fold a bluff and get 3-bet when you're behind. Yes, he may be drawing to outs and you are giving him a better price, but I think that still doesn't make the raise +EV.
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#6
05-27-2005, 01:45 PM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
[ QUOTE ]
I've been pondering something lately that relates to your hand: why did you not raise pf? [/ QUOTE ] I think I didn't raise PF because he hadn't open completed a lot before so I didn't have any idea what range of hands he did this with... except not the good ones obviously. In this hand I just called down. He lead the blank river too but I couldn't understand why he wouldn't CR the turn or check-call turn and lead the river if he really had a king. Either line would have made a good bluff. He had J7o so MHWG. [ QUOTE ] What kind of hands should you raise after a SB open-complete? Is it profitable to raise nearly anything, since you'll then have initiative and position on a weak player/weak hand? [/ QUOTE ] I'm also considering this against players that open-limp in SB. Seems like quite a few of them try to limp with any kind of rags and sometimes fold before the flop if you raise.
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#7
05-27-2005, 02:16 PM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
[ QUOTE ]
You're only going to fold a bluff and get 3-bet when you're behind. [/ QUOTE ] In reality there are very few hands here that would be a complete bluff, almost all hands that he could have have atleast some outs so I don't mind him folding those hands here. Second why does it have to be he's either going to fold a bluff or 3 bet. There are many players that will not 3 bet a king here, as well as many players who won't fold 1 over to our 8's here. I raise because I'm ahead a great majority of the time and my hand is vulnerable enough to where I want to charge any draws. Also getting 3-bet here isn't the end of the world, it's an easy fold and wouldn't cost you any more than just calling down, the only negative is you do lose your chance to improve on the river. FWIW from my experience these type of plays are typically smaller pairs or newly picked up flush draw.
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#8
05-27-2005, 03:41 PM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
[ QUOTE ]
I've been pondering something lately that relates to your hand: why did you not raise pf? [/ QUOTE ] Because 87o is probably not the best hand?
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#9
05-27-2005, 04:19 PM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
I think just calling the turn and calling the river (or betting when checked to) is easily the best option in my experience. I see this play alot from players who caught a draw on the turn. Give them the chance to keep bluffing. You'll NEVER make the typical opponent fold a better hand here but there are alot of nothing hands that he might fold (which is bad for you). You also open yourself up to a 3-bet if he does have a real hand.
Cartman
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#10
05-27-2005, 04:26 PM
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Re: BB question, heads-up with limping SB
[ QUOTE ]
I see this play alot from players who caught a draw on the turn. Give them the chance to keep bluffing [/ QUOTE ] Why not charge them extra to draw and if they are bluffing (semi-bluffing) what makes you think that they will always continue to do so? [ QUOTE ] there are alot of nothing hands that he might fold (which is bad for you). [/ QUOTE ] I would like to fold a 6 outer now and take the pot.
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