Worth(less?) flop bets against a maniac

damaniac · #1 05-26-2005, 03:02 PM

Not terribly interesting hands, these are two hands against crazy maniacs and I want to see how you all think I should play these flops. Preflop is standard I think in both, and turn/river I am obviously going to showdown and I have very weak hands so I don't want to put too many bets in, even against their range (or do I?), but I want to know if I should just check/call these flops or if I should be putting in more money here.

Two similar hands vs. complete maniacs (one was something like 65/45/2 after 60 hands, but don't let the two fool you: he bet and raised with little or nothing, he just wound up calling down a lot after the flop when played back at, the other was presumably similar as it was a week ago I don't remember exactly.)

Hand 1: Maniac is to my left (sadly). My main question here is on the flop. He'll bet or raise with little or nothing, but of course he could well have a K, Q, or higher pp too. I'm clearly going to showdown regardless: think there is value in betting at all, or should I just plan to call down on a board like this unless I improve?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, 5 folds, Hero caps, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Other hand is somewhat similar, I had position on the maniac, same kind of guy, more like 90/90/5 though. Capping 42o on every street, etc.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+2 folds, MP3 caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 calls $1.99 (All-In), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.99 BB

Again, my hand may well be good given his range of hands (any two), so what should my plan be? Other than obviously going to showdown, and going nuts if I do make a pair/straight? Worth betting A high and a gutshot?

Wepeel · #2 05-26-2005, 03:20 PM

In hand 1 betting into a maniac on a flop like this does nothing for you but lose you more bets when you are behind. If you say he'll raise any two then you gain no information of whether or not you are ahead or behind and you already said you wanted to see showdown then why not check call down unless you spike an 8?

The difference in hand 2 is that you might be splitting this if he has Ax. I find the check fold button on the flop. However, you could argue that he is almost all in and will raise till he's broke with nothing as a bluff.

chief444 · #3 05-26-2005, 03:27 PM

Hand 1 I'd probably shuffle in 4 bets on the flop and then when the third overcard falls on the turn just get to showdown. That's my hunch anyway. I mean basically a true maniac like you describe sits down and literally auto bets/raises any two so if you're asking what you should do...just plug in whatever your hand is into pokerstove against a random hand and there's your answer. Personally, if it's anywhere near marginal I'll just check/call on down since that by itself gives more variance in this game than most can handle. I would as I said though go 4 bets on the flop in hand 1.

Hand 2 I'm just check/calling. Although you probably do have an equity edge on the flop enough to cap again.