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#1
12-13-2002, 07:36 AM
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when to \"get involved\"
here's a marginal hand i played in loose passive 3/6 pacific poker.
i'm on the button and call with K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] after EP, MP, and CO limpers , blinds tag along. 6 way action for 6 small bets. flop shows K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] now, in HPFAP on page 163 it states that u can play hands like Kxs from the button becuase u can flop a king and still often fold, not letting urself get trapped. however, if i understand correctly, it says u'll have to get involved if the flop comes K rag rag, with 1 of ur suit. does this mean raise for a free card because u have backdoor flush potential along with hitting ur kicket? this is how i've understood it, and so i played the hand accordingly...EP bets, CO call, i raise, SB calls 2 cold, and uh oh, EP 3 bets. CO folds, and i cap, this free card is turning out to be quit expensive. other 2 call. 3 to turn for 19 small bets turn brings a [J[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]] K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] my free card raises are a success, and we all check. alas, river brings [6 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]] J[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] EP bets, i raise, Sb calls 2, and EP folds. i drag a 15 big bet pot. my Q's are obviously geared around my pre-flop and flop play. as well as getting a better understanding of when to "get involved" when i play these types of hands in the future. thx 
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#2
12-13-2002, 03:03 PM
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Re: when to \"get involved\"
i think you got most of the gist of the concept. though im not sure if i would cap this flop. but you did save 1 sb on the turn by doing it. remember, with his 3 bet your likely behind with only 3 immediate outs to the turn. id have just called his raise.
of course if you miss the turn you should be folding. capping the flop may cause you to think pot commitment and call down, when you know your'e beat. but overall, nicely played... b
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#3
12-13-2002, 03:12 PM
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Re: when to \"get involved\"
Many players would be inclined to bet this turn due to their flop aggression. One must realize that very few opponents will fold to a single turn bet. Then if a blank hits on the river, you run a large risk of being outkicked.
Good turn check.
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#4
12-13-2002, 05:05 PM
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Re: when to \"get involved\"
I would call here, as two early players have said they have a hand so you are likley behind a K with a better kicker. I have always interpreted HPFAP as meaning that you should call, not raise, and see if you pick up a draw or pair your kicker on the turn. I would wait until the turn to raise, if I was going to raise at all, and only raise with just a four flush with the intention of checking it through on the river unless I hit my Kicker or made the flush. The problem with the flop raise, IMO, is that you only have a backdoor flush draw and three outs to pair your kicker to fall back on if they call or re-raise you, and you don't have a good enough draw to justify trying to buy a free card here. Glad it worked out here, I bet you got a lot of action after that one.
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#5
12-13-2002, 09:14 PM
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Re: when to \"get involved\"
the free card play was fine. until he got reraised. you can do free card raises with overcards too...
lets say he misses the turn, gets it checked to him. he checks behind, then catches his kicker on the river...you just spent 1 sb to see a card that if the guy bets the turn, youd have never seen. small price to pay really... im suprised the guy didnt bet out on the turn actually...especially if he 'did' have top pair... just some ideas... b
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