10-20 blind defense hand

rtrombone · #1 05-25-2005, 01:05 AM

At the time, button seemed tight/reasonable. I think both his VP$IP and Att. to Steal were in the 20s. I didn't have many hands with him, though. As for my image, I'd been showing down a lot of winners.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

What's your line on the river?

krishanleong · #2 05-25-2005, 08:52 AM

bet/fold.

Krishan

hockey1 · #3 05-25-2005, 09:19 AM

check / fold. Betting's no good because he' umlikely to call your bet with many hands you can beat. And calling his bet is a bad idea because that's a really scary board for button to bluff into, especially after you've been betting all the way. Your check is reasonably read to show concern about a T rather than real weakenss. If he bets he's going to have at least a J (probably better) enough that calling is going to be significantly -EV.

TStoneMBD · #4 05-25-2005, 09:27 AM

checkfold

tongni · #5 05-25-2005, 09:30 AM

Personally I like checkfold, but it depends on your dynamics with the button in this hand.

rtrombone · #6 05-26-2005, 05:07 AM

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 8s 6s (one pair, eights).
Button has 6h 6c (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.25 BB. 

I posted this hand because I was sorely tempted to bet the river. Maybe I'm taking this thin value bet thing too far? In retrospect there's little value in a bet. The only hands that may call are AQ, A7 and the like. (I definitely didn't put the button on a small pocket pair.) A bet on such a scary board is suspicious so it will often get called by hands I beat. It's just that there are so many more hands I lose to that will call. I have no illusions of getting a better hand to fold.

What stopped me from betting is that I couldn't call a raise, and I've been bluff-raising the river more lately. Did this guy have the stones to do it? I don't know. But I've been showing a definite profit bluff-raising, so it should be a part of all of your games.

The other reason I wanted to bet has to do with Shania. When people see that you'll value bet fourth pair on a scary board, they're going to be less likely to pick off your bluffs with ace-high.

In the end, though, the best line is probably check-fold.

Oh, it turns out my opponent wasn't so tight. After some more hands I had him at 42/20/2.14. What do you know.

wheelz · #7 05-26-2005, 05:26 AM

sample size wins again

kiddo · #8 05-26-2005, 06:24 AM

Why wouldnt button bet a busted draw on river if Hero check? At least much more then potodds says? For me its an easy checkcall.

ALL1N · #9 05-26-2005, 06:34 AM

Which busted draw? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

kiddo · #10 05-26-2005, 08:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Which busted draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree, this wasnt my brigthest post ever. As long as we think this guy is tight and predictable I guess checkfold is ok.

But I see so many strange hands calling all the way and so many riverbluffs at 10/20 that if this guy isnt very predicatable I will call thinking I will catch him betting something worse (and normally extremly strange) more then 1/7.