Major differences between NL and PL? (at $25 level)

[pyedog]

When I play no limit it is almost exclusively on Party, 4 tabling either NL25 or PL25. However, I make almost no strategy adjustments between the two types of poker. I'm wondering if I'm missing something obvious.

The only adjustment that I do make in PL is that sometimes I will limp with my big pairs in EP at an aggressive table in hopes that I can limp reraise and make a decent size bet preflop to limit the field and get money in as the favourite. I also do this occassionally in NL, but only at an exceptionally aggressive table. In my experience though, the tables at these levels are rarely that aggressive preflop, so the limp reraise usually backfires unless there is a maniac at the table. Post flop, in no limit I almost always bet between 1/2 and 2/3 of the pot (occasionally slightly overbetting the pot with a strong hand against a gullible opponent to make it seem like a bluff). But in general the fact that bet sizes are limited in pot limit have no effect on my play. I'm curious if I'm missing a major strategic adjustment or if most people at these levels play them interchangeably too.

I have noticed that the PL games have shorter waiting lists in general on Party, and they often have larger pot sizes. I have no idea why the pots would tend to be bigger, as I would expect most aggressive fish would prefer NL due to its mystique. I don't have a large enough sample size to say which one is more profitable for me.

Finally, Negreanu wrote an article about how pot limit should crown the world champion instead of no limit. Do you guys think that it really makes that big of a difference if the betting is limited by the pot size? I could see it mattering more in a tournament when you are down to about 5 BB and the easiest move is just to push all in preflop with a good hand.

I just don't see that big of a distinction in a typical small stakes cash game. I guess that you have better implied odds in that the players who like to telegraph their big hands preflop with raises to 12 or 16 BBs in an unopened pot can only raise to a few times the BB allowing you to call with drawing hands more profitably. It is also a greater disadvantage to be in EP with a raising hand in PL. But in late position I see no difference at all (maybe you can only raise to 6BB instead of 8BB after 4 limpers, but that is a slight difference).

[DoomSlice]

The only thing I find myself doing is betting full pot (often by checking the box) much more often than in NL.

[swolfe]

if you ever watch the final table of a big NL tournament, you'll see that most people are overbetting the pot...just pushing in when they have a decent hand hoping for a coin flip to land in their favor. that's not poker.

pot limit would mean that the'd have to play poker after the flop. i think it'd be a lot more interesting...

i'm a little biased since i think PL is more fun to play...NL is fine, but i just have a personal preference for PL.

the biggest difference for low stakes players is that you can't get bluffed off a decent hand by someone betting $30 into a $2 pot on the river. if you've played it well post-flop, you've managed the pot size so that a pot sized river bet can be called.

[pyedog]

[ QUOTE ]
if you ever watch the final table of a big NL tournament, you'll see that most people are overbetting the pot...just pushing in when they have a decent hand hoping for a coin flip to land in their favor. that's not poker.

pot limit would mean that the'd have to play poker after the flop. i think it'd be a lot more interesting...

i'm a little biased since i think PL is more fun to play...NL is fine, but i just have a personal preference for PL.

the biggest difference for low stakes players is that you can't get bluffed off a decent hand by someone betting $30 into a $2 pot on the river. if you've played it well post-flop, you've managed the pot size so that a pot sized river bet can be called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, very true swolfe, good points. Many tournaments I watch on TV make it a bit tricky to follow the current blind sizes, bet sizes and pot sizes. It would be nice if some sort of betting summary was displayed at key moments like the score in a sporting event. I know WSOP broadcasts often have pot size shown but little else.

About the huge overbets in small stakes NL that is something I completely forgot about. Just yesterday I got bluffed out of a $5 pot with AQ on a harmless Q-high board due to a $50 raise. There's something really annoying about that and I couldn't help but talk trash to the guy who did it to me.

[jkkkk]

PL is definitely a game where you have to pay more attention to pot size control and is also my preference.

NL allows more room for error though, so i play whichever is juiciest.

[StLouisMike]

Doom's response is the reason that PL usually has a bigger pot size compared to NL. Seems that the benchmark for strength in PL is to bet the pot so people are more inclined to bet the pot. Although people can just throw it all in on coin flips in NL would there be that much of a difference in PL in a game where the blinds get exremely high? Not sure there but I think PL Holdem is a very intriguing game and most likely has higher swings in it.

[swolfe]

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Not sure there but I think PL Holdem is a very intriguing game and most likely has higher swings in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

i personally have bigger swings at NL. in fact, my PL swings are minimal...might just be my style though.

[Godfather80]

To chime in, I much prefer PL to NL for all of the reasons that have been described above. However, I'd much rather play NL against weak opponents because their mistakes are bigger.

PL is where I try to hone my subtler strategies against better opponents.