NL100 top set on coordinated board

PokerFink · #1 05-23-2005, 02:42 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($73.50)
UTG ($72.50)
UTG+1 ($96.60)
MP1 ($209.30)
MP2 ($98)
MP3 ($97.50)
Hero ($113.80)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($35.35)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $2, MP1 calls $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $2, 3 folds.

Flop: ($7.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets $4, MP1 calls $4, Hero raises to $24, UTG+1 calls $20, MP1 calls $20.

Turn: ($79.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $87.8 (All-In)

 Like or dislike? 

36offsuit · #2 05-23-2005, 02:56 AM

It looks pretty good to me. MP1 appears to be drawing and that will shut him out. UTG+1 could have a wide variety of things. I've seen alot of players min-raise with drawing type hands preflop to build the pot, and he could definitely have 98, T9 or T8 (less likely), which will all call. JJ+ is also very possible here. You have a strong hand and while at this level a donk min-raising with JQ is certainly possible, I think it's played well. The draws will come along for any smaller bet, and you can't really make a smaller bet without pot committing yourself anyway.

bort411 · #3 05-23-2005, 03:02 AM

I prefer betting 40 then just pushing any non Q,7 river. You want hands like 10J, 89, and JJ to pay you off here. Why not give them a chance to catch with poor odds? You're only getting called here by straights and total morons, so why risk more than you need to?

pk Wools · #4 05-23-2005, 04:37 AM

with two guys still in tho, suppose u bet 40, a guy calls, the other guy will probably follow, given the action on the flop

is it ok to give a threeway visit to the river?

Malachii · #5 05-23-2005, 05:16 AM

Dislike. He bets half the pot and then calls your big raise when he has no odds to draw. Honestly, it feels to me like you're behind here. I would check it and try to fill up for free and call a reasonable sized bet on the river, provided it doesn't kill your hand (Q-7.)

PokerFink · #6 05-23-2005, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
with two guys still in tho, suppose u bet 40, a guy calls, the other guy will probably follow, given the action on the flop

is it ok to give a threeway visit to the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why I pushed instead of betting 40. I thought the second player (MP1) was likely drawing, and I had to do everything possible to protect my hand against him.

PokerFink · #7 05-23-2005, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dislike. He bets half the pot and then calls your big raise when he has no odds to draw. Honestly, it feels to me like you're behind here. I would check it and try to fill up for free and call a reasonable sized bet on the river, provided it doesn't kill your hand (Q-7.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the worst possible play in a 3-way pot like this. MP1 could easily have a draw getting 3-1 on his money when I raise on the flop.

What do I do if I check and a diamond comes off, and then UTG+1 checks and MP1 moves in?

If I were heads-up against the preflop raiser I think your line has merit.

Malachii · #8 05-23-2005, 09:45 PM

This is a good point, the MP player could very easily have a draw and would be getting the proper odds to chase.

This is what I'm thinking on the turn:

MP1 has either a straight or a flush draw, and is behind at this point and will not pay off if you check the turn and bet the river unless you fill up and he catches a diamond and or straight card, depending on what he's drawing at. You definitely don't want to give him a free card to beat you if you do infact have the best hand.

However, if you push all in here, you protect your hand against MP1, but in so doing you are risking your entire stack versus UTG+1 if he has a made straight and is slowplaying.

It all depends on whtat your read is on UTG+1. My take on his action so far is that he's slowplaying a flopped straight. He could easily have minimum raised from early position with a hand like QJ suited. I've often seen players minimum raise with suited connectors because they don't want anyone to raise behind them. If you decide that UTG+1 is drawing, then I like your push. If you decide that you're behind, I would check it and be prepared to give it up if it looks like MP2 makes his draw.

What other hands do you see UTG+1 playing in this manner other than QJ, where he makes a bet on the flop that seems designed to build a pot and then calls your huge raise when he has no odds to draw?

PokerFink · #9 05-24-2005, 12:26 AM

There are a lot of hands that UTG+1 can have, besides a straight, that he would play in this manner. An overpair, two pair, and a combination hand (say 10-J) all come to mind.

If the pot was heads-up, I would probably bet 40 or so to try to get these hands to come along for the ride, since most of those hands are drawing either dead or really silm. But in a 3-way pot, I felt that I had to protect my hand.

Obviously if I think UTG+1 is a big enough rock that he would only call my raise with a made straight then I'm going to check the turn and hope I fill. But that takes a detailed read on my opponent, which I did not have since I had recently joined the game.

I think your line has a lot of merit in a more challenging game, but sometimes level one thinking is simply the best option: it's NL100 and I have top set; I should push.

Also, never underestimate the power of the donkey factor.

Results: UTG+1 folded and MP1 called and the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] came off.

MP1 flipped up 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and MHIG. Yeah... 62. A pair of deuces and a gutshot. As I said, never underestimate the donkey factor.

bizaff · #10 05-24-2005, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
However, if you push all in here, you protect your hand against MP1, but in so doing you are risking your entire stack versus UTG+1 if he has a made straight and is slowplaying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is a straight a reasonable holding? Can he afford to give free cards against 2 opponents with a flush draw? I'm inclined to think I'm ahead.

I can't necessarily ignore the fact that they're not left with odds to draw anyway, but I think a made straight would see the 2 diamonds, and that would send the pucker factor up too much to just call, then give a free card on the turn.