Flop decision: good or bad choice? Why?

[Pokey]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Pokey is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>....

<font color="blue">Thoughts?</font>

[damaniac]

You're got 7ish outs with the A, the clubs, and the gutshot. It'd sure be nice to get a free card, a better A to fold, a six to fold (since they'd have a redraw against your made straight if you hit), etc. The pot is pretty big. If this is wrong, it ain't wrong by much. I like it.

[thejameser]

What justification can be given for this play to not be chip-spewing. Without me actually having a read on your opponents it seems you apparently think an overcard with a weak kicker, a backdoor flush draw, and a piece of a backdoor straight draw is really worth a 3bet into opponents that have enough of a hand to PFR, then like the flop enought to bet and raise the PFRer. How can you not be unprofitably behind(not to mention it could come back capped). Seriously, reads would help, and I would try to draw to that turn card as cheap as possible(even though I probably fold here with the bet and raise in front of me 99% of the time; do you really think this is longterm EV?).
It is a big pot and you had the odds on the flop(including the implied) to maybe call, but a 3bet just seems stupid(outside of a change of pace play).

[shant]

This should get interesting.

[PokerCat69]

I'd call the raise instead of 3 betting.

[ArturiusX]

SB bet out, we presume he has a made hand at this stage, AK, KQ, even KK.

He ain't letting go. Our A outs are almost certainly tainted, and I can't see what we gain from the 3-bet, except maybe some respect in the later streets, which I dont think will materialise.

[CallMeIshmael]

I think its close between a call and a 3-bet.

If you have about 6 outs, (which I think is fair here, counting the ace as about 0.5 outs), then I think you have to continue.

I generally call here, but I can see the merit in raising.

I think folding is clearly wrong.



(note... after reviewing this hand with a vastly superior player, I am chanhing my vote to raise)

[Derek132260]

With no reads on SB, and with the fact that he raised pre-flop...I think you must strongly consider that your A outs are no good. He could very easily have AK, KK, or AA (most likely AK). Your re-raise might get him to fold something like AQ or TT...but then you still have to deal with the flop raiser. So, at best, your re-raise buys you 3 ace outs (but that is at best, which you can't necessarily assume at this moment). So considering that possibility, you're really drawing to the bicycle or the backdoor flush. I realize it's a large pot and hard to fold the flop (though that is probably what I would be inclined to do absent reads on the SB). If you want to keep going with it, I actually concede that my A probably doesn't win, and I actually cold call the raise, hoping for no re-raise. If a club, 3, or A hits the turn...continue. If it's a blank, fold.

But if it's me, I'm folding the flop.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
(note... after reviewing this hand with a vastly superior player, I am chanhing my vote to raise)

[/ QUOTE ]
That's very sweet of you to say. I'm flattered.

[damaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
SB bet out, we presume he has a made hand at this stage, AK, KQ, even KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are seriously under-estimating the range of hands that will be bet here. And if you only bet those hands in this situation, you'd be a fish.