$80-$160 Hand: Request For Comments

Jim Brier · #1 12-08-2002, 05:34 PM

The following is a hand I probably played poorly but managed to win. I would like a critique of my thought process.

This is a 9-handed $80-$160 game at the Bellagio which occured last night. The room was packed and there was a ton of big games going on because of the Bellagio poker tournament. I was winning substantially and my image was good.

I am on the button with the Ac-Th. It is folded to the cutoff who opens with a raise. The cutoff is a wealthy local who is a solid player but who likes to raise light from late position. I 3-bet. I want to isolate him with position and I know that he would raise with a vast array of hands in this spot not just premium ones. The small blind calls. I had not planned on this. The small blind is a clueless tourist. The big blind folds. The cutoff calls. There are 10 small bets in the pot and three players.

The flop is: Kc-Qd-5h.

It is checked to me. I bet. The clueless one now raises. The cutoff folds. I suspect I am in trouble but there are 13 bets in the pot and I have 7 outs to improve (4 outs to the nut straight and 3 overcard outs). I call. There are 14 bets in the pot.

The turn is the 8c. The tourist bets. There are now 16 small bets in the pot and it costs me a double bet to call. I have a 7-outer which is a 6-to-1 shot and my pot odds are 8-to-1 plus I figure to collect another big bet at the river if I hit the winning hand. The problem is that an ace may not be an out but I simply cannot tell. I figure I have a small overlay, so I called.

The river was the Jh.

This gives me my gutshot straight. My opponent checks. I bet, he calls, and I win without seeing his hand. One of the better players in the game thought it was strange that I played a gutshot all the way to the river.

Was my play bad?

Ed Miller · #2 12-08-2002, 06:05 PM

I don't think you have an overlay on the turn. He cold-calls 2.5 bets preflop and then checkraises you on the flop? While a clueless tourist might make the preflop play with almost anything, the same clueless tourist would not checkraise you without a solid hand here. Hands that he could have that you do not have an overlay against:

AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 55, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, K5, Q5

You have a modest overlay against: KJ, QJ

You are hoping he has: Kx, Qx, JT (assuming you are willing to call a river bet), TT-22

The problem is... I think the hands are most likely from the "you don't have an overlay against" section and least likely from the "hoping he has" section.

Also important is whether you are willing to call a river bet either with your unimproved Ace-high or if a T comes on the river. Your hand looks better against some of the "hoping he has" hands if you are willing to call a river bet... but that can also be expensive.

I am curious what he had that made him scared of a J on the river. Maybe he just sees, "straight possible, ergo check."

Dynasty · #3 12-08-2002, 06:10 PM

The problem is that an ace may not be an out but I simply cannot tell.

I think your call on the turn was good.

In these situtations, I usually treat the three Aces in the deck as less than three outs but more than zero outs. When playing heads-up, it's more likely that I think the Ace is good. If I feel like doing a precise calculation, I count them as 1.5 outs. If you treat your ATo as a 5.5 out hand (4 Jacks and 1.5 Aces), you've got the pot odds to call.

However, I think you made a mistake on the flop. On a K,Q,5 rainbow flop, you should have 3-bet the flop with position with the intention of checking behind on the turn and taking a free card. Given your 3-bet pre-flop and a K-high flop, it's tough for your opponent to make it 4 bets. If he does have a big hand, he may try to checkraise the turn.

Ed Miller · #4 12-08-2002, 06:14 PM

I agree completely with Dynasty's comment about 3-betting the flop.

mikelow · #5 12-08-2002, 06:53 PM

No, I think you played it fine. True, you were lucky. I guess the tourist had AK (he can have a good hand occasionally) and the cutoff had pocket nines.

Ulysses · #6 12-08-2002, 07:58 PM

I bet. The clueless one now raises.

If you call, you know he's highly likely to bet the turn. Since you're willing to call a turn bet with a blank, why not 3-bet the flop?

Between your opponent slowing down after your 3-bet pre-flop and on the flop or going for a check-raise with a monster, I think you have a good chance of getting to see the river for half price if you don't hit. Sounds like your image will work in your favor as well.

As for the turn, I don't like the call. Your overlay comes from your Ace outs. Given your opponent's action, I'd discount those outs quite a bit.

bernie · #7 12-08-2002, 08:27 PM

i agree with dynastys thoughts of lowering the value of your A outs. thats kind of wishfull thinking...i would actually go a further at times and discount them since hitting it could trap you pretty good....and your way of thinking, thats what it would have done. if an A hits, youre locked into calling.

your playing this hand for the gutshot. flat out.

at first i didnt agree with the 3 bet idea by dynasty, but another responder made a great point that if youre calling the turn, save some chips and raise the flop. go for a free card.

however, you have to ask yourself, has this 'clueless' tourist checkraised previously? if so, with what? is his range THAT wide? remember, he's checkraising a preflop 3 bettor....

but since you didnt do that....id fold on the turn.
so id have called the flop raise, and folded the turn after i missed....

see ya...

b

Zeno · #8 12-08-2002, 11:38 PM

The clueless one had KQ and flopped two pair.

-Zeno

Clarkmeister · #9 12-09-2002, 12:33 AM

mikelow,

Why would you put an overaggressive blind stealing cutoff on a hand as big as 99?

If I were the cutoff against reasonable blinds and a tightish button like Jim, I would raise with an enormous range of hands. He could have had anything from 67s to A2o and all sorts of stuff in between.

Softrock · #10 12-09-2002, 12:45 AM

Playing it like you did, I would agree with Dynasty that 3-betting the flop might well get you a free card. Could this clueless tourist really fold AK or KQ for one bet on the river? Not many clueless tourists I know would do so.

That said, no one so far has suggested you might check the flop - with two other players what are your chances of getting both to fold and with the action before the flop you are indeed likely to get check-raised. I probably bet hands like these too often. Given the desire to maintain an aggressive approach I often don't just take the free card and get myself into trouble (as I'd say you did). Perhaps others have the same mindset given that nobody else has suggested just checking behind on the flop might have been the better choice.