2 hands for review

[davidross]

Despite a lot of effort on my part I'm still struggling to get my win rate up to where it should be. I've been playing 5/10 6 max for a bout 4 weeks now to try and get back on a winning track, and while I'm winning steadily it's in the 1 BB/100 hands area right now. What I can't figure out is if I'm not winning enough on my winners, or losing too much on my losers or something else. 2 hands from today where I get lost.

Hand 1.

Only my 2nd orbit. SB I have at 14/35 but BB is unknown.

I open raise from the CO with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB 3 bets and BB cold calls. I call.

Flop Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets, BB calls and I raise. SB calls and now BB comes to life and 3 bets. I call and SB calls again.

Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, and BB checks [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

now what, no apparent draws, is this a set looking to check-raise again?

Hand 2

I open raise with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the hi-jack.

BB calls. He has made a lot of speculative raises post flop and seems to play any 2pre-flop.

FLop T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I bet and he calls.

Turn K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet and he check-raises. I 3 bet and he caps.

Now what?

[J.R.]

hand 1- I dunno, the flop 3-bet isn't a draw so I check thru and call a river bet, betting if checked to. I hate having to call the check-raise and its hard to see somebody 3-betting the flop with a worse one pair 3-handed hand so I think a turn-check-raise is likely. I look to showdown.

hand 2- call, I think ther eis little value in a raise and QJ 3-bets

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1.
now what, no apparent draws, is this a set looking to check-raise again?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would bet for value on the turn and if BB again check-raises muck.I put SB on overcards must likely AK or he could have JJ,TT.

You dont tell us much about the BB's prior play.There is a high probability that he may checkraise you on the turn if you bet-I'd put him on a set of eights or deuces or Q8s for top two if he does and muck. But I think you must bet the turn and not give any freecards.IF BB is solid/tricky rather than typically fishy checking could be an option-the good thing about checking the turn is most probably you have the SB drawing very thin to only 2-3 outs.HHmm come to think about it since the bb is most probably drawing so thin checking the turn against all but the more fishy over-aggro types may be the best play...

So yeah I just vacillated on this one ..I'd bet the turn if BB was a fish for value but check behind if he's decent/tricky since there may not be that many freecards that will hurt you.

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet for value on the turn and if BB again check-raises muck

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a tough muck for me, i don't give a guy apparently loose enough to have each of the 2 pair combos credit for a set here that much.

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2
Now what?


[/ QUOTE ]
what do you mean "now what?"What are the options here?

You said he plays fast the turn checkraise is one thing but the cap more likely means more than a speculative redraw scenario-he must likely floppped a small set or turned the straight.

Are you thinking about actually folding? Not me ..flat call the river.Your hand will better more times than you expect I bet.

You've been to war just pay him off-folding is catastrophic since you said he plays fast.

[lostinthought]

Hand 1 -

This come to life 3 bet is typically better than a top pair hand, because his come to life raise makes it only 1 more SB to you. There's no way when the action on the flop that you will raise and fold for one more here, esp since SB will most likely not re-raise. If I have the player labeled as a donkey, I might even-re-raise and try to get the SB out since I will probably take this hand to the river against a donkey.

However, against an unknown I think it's safe to think you are behind more often than not, and I prefer to check through, and call a river bet.

[lostinthought]

Hand 2 -

I think at least a river call is in order here, ie. don't think about folding. 'now what' leaves a lot of options-

He bets when a K or T comes on the river - obvious raise
He bets when a diamond comes - call
He bets when I rag cames - call

He checks when a K or T comes - obvious bet
He checks when a diamond comes - tough - I think I check
He checks when a rag comes - I bet for value

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
and I doubt he raises the worse hands if you lead (maybe so, its hard to tell what your read means- but after a turn cap you're leading into him shows a lot of strength). if he's bluffing, a check-call is good too.


[/ QUOTE ]

he wont be leading into him on the river since he's last to act.

An interesting question is if checked to on the river should you bet this hand for value on the end? I'd probably restrain myself and just check it thru if he checked the river.

[lostinthought]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and I doubt he raises the worse hands if you lead (maybe so, its hard to tell what your read means- but after a turn cap you're leading into him shows a lot of strength). if he's bluffing, a check-call is good too.


[/ QUOTE ]

he wont be leading into him on the river since he's last to act.



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what Hi-Jack means, but how does he check-raise the turn last to act?

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
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I would bet for value on the turn and if BB again check-raises muck


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that's a tough muck for me, i don't give a guy apparently loose enough to have each of the 2 pair combos credit for a set here that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point..Very close .But I think more times than not unless this player has shown an inordinate amount of trickiness in prior play my hand hits the muck.